🦋 How decentralized is Bluesky really? -- Dustycloud Brainstorms
@benroyce last night I caught up on all the drama and I'm absolutely flabbergasted... and a little surprised there hasn't been more talk on here about the implications of the false promises of AT Proto's decentralization.
Link has been permanently banned even if he's on Blacksky... because Blacksky uses Bluesky's AppView https://bsky.app/profile/rvbdrm.com/post/3m2jxe5ly722x
Looking up "Link Blacksky" on Bluesky surfaces really interesting talking points
"surprised there hasn't been more talk on here about the implications of the false promises of AT Proto's #decentralization"
there's feverish true believers who think #bitcoin is the future of money
never going to happen: massive energy use
that doesn't stop the true believer
it's a cult
same with " #bluesky is #decentralized"
and my example of bitcoin is purposeful:
bluesky is run by #cryptoBros, and funded by #crypto bros
they imported the crypto con job to #socialMedia
Adrian
boosted
We're in #EmpoderaLIVE this week in Malaga, ES
Catch our open chat / interview: "Seizing the Means of Digital Production: Autonomy, Control, and Access on the Decentralised Web"
More info at: https://empodera.org/live/en/agenda
https://empodera.org/live/en/speakers/sarven-capadisli
great!
i love how you repeat the cultish devotion to promise over reality
truly wonderful
#bluesky is #centralized. not technologically, but in implementation
and yet it is your feverish irrational devotion to "maybe someday!" over the simple reality that true #decentralization is already here, for years, on #mastodon/ #fediverse
"but i got it working!"
yes, and i implemented #reddit's code and i'm running a clone of reddit so reddit is not centralized! gotcha!
🤦
cultists
Someone was suspended
Death threats? Plain criticism? I didn't investigate
But:
The suspension affects #Blacksky as well
All this talk about the *promise* of #decentralization
But that is not the reality
Cultists buy the promise and ignore the reality
Come to #Mastodon / #Fediverse
Oh we have drama too
Some instances suspend out of capricious bullshit, a Spanish Inquisition
But you still have reach:
We are truly #decentralized
We're in #EmpoderaLIVE this week in Malaga, ES
Catch our open chat / interview: "Seizing the Means of Digital Production: Autonomy, Control, and Access on the Decentralised Web"
More info at: https://empodera.org/live/en/agenda
https://empodera.org/live/en/speakers/sarven-capadisli
We're in #EmpoderaLIVE this week in Malaga, ES
Catch our open chat / interview: "Seizing the Means of Digital Production: Autonomy, Control, and Access on the Decentralised Web"
More info at: https://empodera.org/live/en/agenda
https://empodera.org/live/en/speakers/sarven-capadisli
jbz
boosted
Delusions of a Protocol | Azhdarchid
｢ AT Proto decentralization doesn't exist as a practical reality, and if it ever does it won't be for years. Most of the work driving effective decentralization is being done by third parties, who have limited guarantees about future compatibility with possible breaking changes on Bluesky's end ｣
Delusions of a Protocol | Azhdarchid
｢ AT Proto decentralization doesn't exist as a practical reality, and if it ever does it won't be for years. Most of the work driving effective decentralization is being done by third parties, who have limited guarantees about future compatibility with possible breaking changes on Bluesky's end ｣
just small circles 🕊
boosted
The problem isn't ActivityPub (the underlying tech that drives Fedi/Mastodon) vs ATProto (the underlying tech that drives Bluesky), the problem is convincing people why they should care about decentralization in the first place, and why some of its trade-offs are actually worth it. 
ATProto will never be decentralized. It's not designed to be. 
It's built to make sure everyone's data is completely public so then it can be aggregated by centralized networks built from your data. While it can take in data from decentralized sources, the network itself (the interactions, the likes, the replies, the reposts) are all centralized to one network. It's why Bluesky feels so centralized despite claims to the contrary, because it is centralized. It's also why Bluesky will never have privacy controls, because it relies on everyone's data being completely public.
ActivityPub is properly decentralized, which is great if you want proper freedom from big tech firms, but a problem when the experience feels a bit disjointed. Fedi is awkward to join and to navigate, it's difficult to explain how it works, and, frankly, some of the servers in the network are run by shitty people who shouldn't be in charge of a server, but you don't know that until you join. 
That sucks.
The problem is that those headaches are worth it. We are immune from arbitrary ToS decisions, we can't be bought or sold to private equity, Trump can't come in and strong-arm us into giving a voice to Nazis, etc. Our communities are moderated by members of our community, we'll never have an employee who doesn't understand our subculture randomly decide to delete your posts, and we certainly won't have AI misidentify your post and randomly ban your account. We have really strong privacy controls because the network is built on them and not built on needing to suck up everyone's personal data.
Aspects of decentralizaton sucks, sure, and you're right to feel that they suck. There are plenty of smart people working on solving some of those problems, but in the meantime, isn't it worth having a bit of a learning curve in order to have proper freedom for your place on the internet?
#Bluesky #Bsky #Fedi #Fediverse #Mastodon #ATProto #ActivityPub #FOSS #Decentralization
The problem isn't ActivityPub (the underlying tech that drives Fedi/Mastodon) vs ATProto (the underlying tech that drives Bluesky), the problem is convincing people why they should care about decentralization in the first place, and why some of its trade-offs are actually worth it.
ATProto will never be decentralized. It's not designed to be. It's built to make sure everyone's data is completely public so then it can be aggregated by centralized networks built from your data. While it can take in data from decentralized sources, the network itself (the interactions, the likes, the replies, the reposts) are all centralized to one network. It's why Bluesky feels so centralized despite claims to the contrary, because it is centralized. It's also why Bluesky will never have privacy controls, because it relies on everyone's data being completely public.
ActivityPub is properly decentralized, which is great if you want proper freedom from big tech firms, but a problem when the experience feels a bit disjointed. Fedi is awkward to join and to navigate, it's difficult to explain how it works, and, frankly, some of the servers in the network are run by shitty people who shouldn't be in charge of a server, but you don't know that until you join. That sucks.
The problem is that those headaches are worth it. We are immune from arbitrary ToS decisions, we can't be bought or sold to private equity, Trump can't come in and strong-arm us into giving a voice to Nazis, etc. Our communities are moderated by members of our community, we'll never have an employee who doesn't understand our subculture randomly decide to delete your posts, and we certainly won't have AI misidentify your post and randomly ban your account. We have really strong privacy controls because the network is built on them and not built on needing to suck up everyone's personal data.
Aspects of decentralizaton sucks, sure, and you're right to feel that they suck. There are plenty of smart people working on solving some of those problems, but in the meantime, isn't it worth having a bit of a learning curve in order to have proper freedom for your place on the internet?
#Bluesky #Bsky #Fedi #Fediverse #Mastodon #ATProto #ActivityPub #FOSS #Decentralization
Alex Akselrod
and 1 other
boosted
Remember: people should have #privacy and government should have #transparency
Of course, politicians rather have it the other way around: allow them to avoid accountability while being able to control society. That way lies a police state that benefits just a small elite. Not a world I want to live in!
#NoKings#RuleOfLaw #democracy#Decentralization
https://nextcloud.com/blog/how-the-eu-chat-control-law-is-a-threat-to-democracy/
Remember: people should have #privacy and government should have #transparency
Of course, politicians rather have it the other way around: allow them to avoid accountability while being able to control society. That way lies a police state that benefits just a small elite. Not a world I want to live in!
#NoKings#RuleOfLaw #democracy#Decentralization
https://nextcloud.com/blog/how-the-eu-chat-control-law-is-a-threat-to-democracy/
just small circles 🕊
boosted
hello @evanprodromou , since you asked for a story how people join fediverse, here is my road I had (briefly).
I've heard about fediverse from strangers, seen your interviews & people reviewing it on yt ( thanks @gadgeteer )
Joined small instance of Diaspora. Saw that it doesn't use ActivityPub & not have much connections across bigger fediverse.
Then, since I prefer FLOSS, I joined "biggest" Friendica server (that been listed on some catalog of fediverse instances), since Friendica seemed more versatile, advanced and cross-compatible. Unfortunately to find out that server was full of spam accounts, and has not been federated/configured properly well.
I didn't gave up on my fediadventure, and continued search for a better host. Found few like minded techy servers, hatchyderm wetdryworld etc, tried to register there - wasn't able too 😞 They were either invite only, or with manual approval during registration that never happened in timeable manner, & they didn't allowed my email provider 😒 (unfair discrimination btw, an account creation should not demand email and email should be optional)
Continued search, went to official mastodon page, picked there medium+ sized recommended\suggested certified server with quality guarantees, with automatic registration. Here I am, works fine now, thanks to everyone who made it possible.
There are things I like here (& opposites, but that's for another rant).
Currently looking for good desktop or web client with better UI (I never liked twitter/microblogging, more of a Reddit person) & better, less noisy moderated feed view UI. (I wonder if I should look at commercial clients)
Follow me if you interested in #decentralization .
How did you join the Fediverse?
One of our important projects for the Social Web Foundation is developing a Fediverse Starter page, helping people get onto the social web. As part of this work, our team is conducting user interviews with current Fediverse users to get to know how they joined up and what their experience has been so far. If you're interested in being interviewed and sharing your story, please reply to this post, or email contact@socialwebfoundation.org . Thanks for your help!
One of our important projects for the Social Web Foundation is developing a Fediverse Starter page, helping people get onto the social web. As part of this work, our team is conducting user interviews with current Fediverse users to get to know how they joined up and what their experience has been so far. If you’re interested in being interviewed and sharing your story, please reply to this post, or email contact@socialwebfoundation.org . Thanks for your help!
hello @evanprodromou , since you asked for a story how people join fediverse, here is my road I had (briefly).
I've heard about fediverse from strangers, seen your interviews & people reviewing it on yt ( thanks @gadgeteer )
Joined small instance of Diaspora. Saw that it doesn't use ActivityPub & not have much connections across bigger fediverse.
Then, since I prefer FLOSS, I joined "biggest" Friendica server (that been listed on some catalog of fediverse instances), since Friendica seemed more versatile, advanced and cross-compatible. Unfortunately to find out that server was full of spam accounts, and has not been federated/configured properly well.
I didn't gave up on my fediadventure, and continued search for a better host. Found few like minded techy servers, hatchyderm wetdryworld etc, tried to register there - wasn't able too 😞 They were either invite only, or with manual approval during registration that never happened in timeable manner, & they didn't allowed my email provider 😒 (unfair discrimination btw, an account creation should not demand email and email should be optional)
Continued search, went to official mastodon page, picked there medium+ sized recommended\suggested certified server with quality guarantees, with automatic registration. Here I am, works fine now, thanks to everyone who made it possible.
There are things I like here (& opposites, but that's for another rant).
Currently looking for good desktop or web client with better UI (I never liked twitter/microblogging, more of a Reddit person) & better, less noisy moderated feed view UI. (I wonder if I should look at commercial clients)
Follow me if you interested in #decentralization .
hamish campbell
boosted
Official steps in the development of the open social web. Big players involved here. @Projectliberty is an active org in this area and a great source for this kind of news.
#opensocialweb #fediverse #decentralization #academia #academicchatter
https://www.projectliberty.io/news/bridging-tech-and-governance/
hamish campbell
boosted
⁂ Article
Official Steps into the Open Social Web… but Whose Steps?
We’re seeing “official” moves in the development of the #opensocialweb. Big players are turning up. Conferences in Geneva. Glossy orgs like @ProjectLiberty positioning themselves as bridge-builders between tech and governance.
On the surface, this looks like progress, recognition, and legitimacy. But let’s be brutally honest: these are completely the wrong people to be steering the direction. The problem isn’t that they show up, it’s that they try to take up all the air in the […]
⁂ Article
Official Steps into the Open Social Web… but Whose Steps?
We’re seeing “official” moves in the development of the #opensocialweb. Big players are turning up. Conferences in Geneva. Glossy orgs like @ProjectLiberty positioning themselves as bridge-builders between tech and governance.
On the surface, this looks like progress, recognition, and legitimacy. But let’s be brutally honest: these are completely the wrong people to be steering the direction. The problem isn’t that they show up, it’s that they try to take up all the air in the […]
Official steps in the development of the open social web. Big players involved here. @Projectliberty is an active org in this area and a great source for this kind of news.
#opensocialweb #fediverse #decentralization #academia #academicchatter
https://www.projectliberty.io/news/bridging-tech-and-governance/