@Nelfan@bsky.app@pfrazee.com @mike @dot_social but you've already in a conversation right now that has participation from people across other protocols. I don't think it makes any sense to define the fediverse in terms of the protocols that it contains. If you can communicate with someone bidirectional and exchange replies and reactions/likes then you are part of the fediverse. But of course we don't actually get to decide what the fediverse "means" as usage grows
@liaizon @Nelfan@bsky.app@pfrazee.com @mike @dot_social

Haven't watched the video yet, but will. Generally, the problem with this expanded definition of Fediverse to include #Bluesky and everone who interacts via 'decentralized' social media is that, while Fediverse has not always meant just ActivityPub, it has come to be pretty synonymous in general usage. And, lots of the literature and marketing descriptions of the Fediverse assume this meaning.

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To be part of the Fediverse, those sofwares must have been conceived in order to allow the decentralisation.
So, #Threads is not in the Fediverse.

#BlueSky may become interoperable with the Fediverse and may be considered with gentleness but it will never become a part of the Fediverse.
@bsky.app@pfrazee.com @mike @dot_social @liaizon

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I've got my own Bluesky relay now too 😄 https://relay.feeds.blue

Ok, technically it's a not a full-network one - I added ~2000 known self-hosted PDSes there, but *without* Bluesky-run ones. Which means it has like 2 orders of magnitude less traffic than a full one… But if you're self-hosting a PDS, you should see your records streaming through there, if you either send a requestCrawl there or my PDS indexer has found you.

#bluesky #atproto

I've got my own Bluesky relay now too 😄 https://relay.feeds.blue

Ok, technically it's a not a full-network one - I added ~2000 known self-hosted PDSes there, but *without* Bluesky-run ones. Which means it has like 2 orders of magnitude less traffic than a full one… But if you're self-hosting a PDS, you should see your records streaming through there, if you either send a requestCrawl there or my PDS indexer has found you.

#bluesky #atproto

You could set up something like AppViewLite https://github.com/alnkesq/AppViewLite feeding from my relay as the input, and then people on two different self-hosted PDSes would be able to see and comment on each other's posts, bypassing Bluesky infra almost completely (except plc.directory).

Note, this currently uses ~200 kbit/s traffic and ~200 MB disk space, Munin stats here: https://relay.feeds.blue/munin/

#bluesky #atproto

@strypey my feeling is we haven't yet begun to see what a fully developed #fediverse looks like (including in this definition #atproto, decentral/distributed protocols but also forgotten "low-tech": anything that can be interoperable)

The current adoption landscape ( #rss, #bluesky, #mastodon) highlights various technical possibilities but doesnt span whats possible, nor what is needed.

These three datapoints define a plane of possibilities but the actual space is probably much bigger.

Coda: The growth of BlueSky, and the novel features it launches with, point to a need for a 2.0 version of ActivityPub. One that fleshes out and updates the protocol based on dev experiences in the first decade of active use, and intentions going forward.

Ideally an AP 2.0 would include a formal mechanism for protocol extensions. One that learns from the experiences of the FEP process.

#ActivityPub#AP#AP2 #FEP#BlueSky

Interesting to look back at this five months later ... here's what's currently happening today in terms of decentralization the ATmosphere.
  • @rudyfraser.com announced today that Blacksy feeds and moderation service are now powered by our own atproto relay -- and it's an independent implementation, not using Bluesky's reference code. It's really worth reading the thread, which has a great analogy for how a relay enables custom feeds.

@edavis.dev has configured deer.social (a third-party app) to to point to a self-hosted bsky appview which reads from a self-hosted relay which subscribes to a self-hosted PDS which is where this -- as he says, "Bluesky independent from Bluesky".

Of course, like I said in the article,

""Decentralization" means different things to different people. As the links in the Appendix highlight, people who are focusing on the (very real) concentration of power in the ATmosphere today, or the potentially-centralizing architecture of AT, find it more useful to describe Bluesky as centralized."

And the power concentration -- or "operational centralization" as Bluesky folks were calling it at the ATmosphere Conference -- is still very real. Bluesky still runs almost all of the infrastructure for the ATmosphere, and it's by far the most popular app, and most other apps (as well as Bluesky) use the Bluesky AppView, Relay, and labeler.

Then again, that's clearly in the process of changing, and it'll be interesting to see how it looks six months or a year from now.

@laurenshof @fediversereport @cyrus @cwebber @rysiek @jonny @possibledog @oblomov @rwg @Kye

#bluesky#ATmosphere

https://bsky.app/profile/edavis.dev/post/3lo7y4gwmhs26

So Eric here is now running a forked version of https://bsky.app at https://deer.social, which loads data from a self-hosted full-network #Bluesky AppView, streaming from a self-hosted relay. Basically, "bluesky independent* from bluesky"

(*) the one completely centralized point remains the https://plc.directory DID identity server, unless you use a did:web: ID