https://activitypub.rocks/news/handing-off-activitypubrocks-to-the-activitypub-community.html

It's official now: activitypub.rocks is transferred to ActivityPub community.

You might think that the recipient is #SocialHub, which is located on the socialhub.activitypub.rocks subdomain, but for some reason it's a different entity, the W3C Social Web Community Group. It's hard to find any information about the people who control resources related to this group, but it seems that the site is controlled by the organizer of FediForum (https://fediforum.org/).

Update 2025-08-31: I was informed that the transfer only involved admin access to the site; domain owner didn't change

Re: New: SocialHub and the Substrate of Decentralised Networks

The issue of SocialHub is an interesting one, because where we are today is an odd situation where you have activitypub developers fragmented across multiple collaborative channels.

  • Some discuss their issues on their respective repositories only
  • Some discuss on SocialHub
  • Some discuss on Matrix channels

However, the bottom line truth is as follows: every ActivityPub developer is on the fediverse, ergo why shouldn't ActivityPub-focused discussions take place on the fediverse as well?

Up until this year, SocialHub has been an island separate from the fediverse. I used this analogy in my talk at fedicon to describe how lonely starting a community can be.

To SocialHub's credit, they have created a community of ActivityPub developers that exists to this day, kudos to them! The question remains now whether SocialHub performing their function adequately — to bring together ActivityPub developers of all stripes.

That's a question worth exploring in and of itself.

cc @fediversereport@mastodon.social@julian@activitypub.space

Hi @julian,
IMO the problem is a social one, the proposed solutions technical. Won't do.

IMO it takes social activities, like conferences, to build bonds. Online that's orders of magnitude more time-consuming, frustrating and brittle.

#SocialHub, as I knew it, lacked interest of the 'big shots'. Their disinterest rendered it a side-show.

In all my posting about SH governance, I have attempted to state facts (as I see them), and give my honest opinions. Either my post here;

https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/defamation-of-ps-and-how-must-stop/5472/6

... inadvertently crossed a line and deserved to be hidden by the “wellbeing” system, or that system is being weaponised to silence inconvenient truths. I leave each of you to decide for yourselves which it is, and respond accordingly.

(1/3)

#fediverse#SocialHub

⁂ Article

Compost the blocking, keep the seeds alive, and make space for growth

It’s good to see more people turning their focus back to the #openweb. For the past five years of the #reboot we’ve been distracted in a signal-to-noise mess from the #fashionistas. That time needs to be over, we need to start looking clearly at both internal rot and the external threats.

A good first step is in balancing the realisation that we actually have far more direct power to deal with the internal mess than we do over the eternal #dotcons and their #closedweb “common sense”. […]

⁂ Article

Compost the blocking, keep the seeds alive, and make space for growth

It’s good to see more people turning their focus back to the #openweb. For the past five years of the #reboot we’ve been distracted in a signal-to-noise mess from the #fashionistas. That time needs to be over, we need to start looking clearly at both internal rot and the external threats.

A good first step is in balancing the realisation that we actually have far more direct power to deal with the internal mess than we do over the eternal #dotcons and their #closedweb “common sense”. […]

This post is relevant to the degeneration of the #SocialHub project https://hamishcampbell.com/why-teach-everyone-to-code-has-become-a-dead-end-slogan/ this used to be the place for #ActivityPub and #Fediverse reboot, but now the social side is the few remaining unthinking "problem" people. This is a normal path, outcome, that we do need to compost to keep growing seeds #KISS

@jdp23 @laurenshof

TLDR

- Fedi-wide ezine
- Discussion topic 'substrate formation'
- You warn, I immediately correct. Thanks!
- You inject inclusion, racism. Important!
- You imply unwitting racism at SH
- You want SH to actively address fedi's DEI
- SH has fedi-wide yet fragmented audience
- SH is talking a reboot
- You are active in these topics at SH
- I say what an opportunity for SH, and link
- Bad tool support had unintended effects
- I'm sorry for that

Let's go solution-space at SH now

@smallcircles I would like it to be on the record publicly that @strypey
was very supporting and encouraging regarding the necessity and promotion of inclusive leadership when it came to our (unsuccessful) attempts to build momentum for online events

socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/

Such opinions and sentiments may have become lost through bilateral communications and from passages of time.

However, that does not permit such serious fingerpointing.

1/N

@jdp23 @laurenshof

Recently on the developers forum SocialHub, the last active admin announced an intention to stop doing essential maintenance. Since then, we've been talking about the need for new governance;

socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/

We need an admin team responsive to the community who gather there (whether to comment or just read). People whose priority is to help us share knowledge and solve problems together, so we can make the fediverse better for everyone.

(1/3)

@jdp23 @laurenshof

I'm done with the discussion. Your implications/accusations are unjustified. It is your opinion only. I have made an effort to explain myself, to take discussion in constructive direction. Now I see someone just in for a fight. I'm out.

I gave *very* favourable interpretation to your comms. Other people may conclude "He's preaching from a pulpit for an audience, hijacked a thread, subtooted behind the back of SH and accusing them. Parasocial behavior". I think its bad tools.

Thanks for the conversation, @smallcircles.

I'm not just in it for a fight. If you go back through the thread, you'll see I've made several suggestions as to what you could do -- if you're concerned that you're unintentionally advocating ideas from people who are aligned with the Peter Thiels and Curtis Yarvins of the world, if you want to cut down the chance that your actions unintentionally but predictably lead to racists showing up on people's threads, and if you personally want to get involved in improving diversity and equity on SocialHub in ways that will have an impact. It doesn't sound like any of those are resonating with you right now, but these are areas you want to make progress in, perhaps my suggestions will spark other ideas.

Also, it was also a good opportunity to help people who aren't on SocialHub understand how the anti-Blackness (and other aspects of equity there) impacts safety via who participates in the FEP process. I've said multiple times directly on #SocialHub that I think it's an anti-Black space and that it's up to the white active participants there to do something about it. So if anybody there seems me talking about it here as "behind their back" ... oh well, so be it. Still, I am planning on posting something about this there now that the discussion here has wrapped up.

And @laurenshof, sorry if you feel like this hijacked your thread!

"What does it mean to communicate on a microblogged global public square? It represents people standing on soapboxes talking through megaphones to their follower base, and then things may spread randomly across the social graph."

This isn't a microblogging account. I make long posts and includeformatting -- and for that matter Glitch is better thought of as a community platform. And if after all these years on social networks you still think of things spreading "randomly" I don't know what to tell you.

"You say you don't want people to come crashing, but how can you expect that talking from a soapbox to unknown audience?"

I certainly can't guarantee it; when people boost posts it happens from time to time, and oh well such is life. But it's not random, there are some things that increase the likelihood, and crossposting to SocialHub on a thread where I'm talking about race is one.

"The subject of this thread was SocialHub. How should people know your preference not to spread?"

You could have noticed that I was making posts about this issue on SocialHub and had made an intentional choice to make this post here instead. More importantly though, the point I was trying to highlight was that the you sharing the link to SocialHub resulted in somebody showing up in the thread and saying racist stuff. That's a predictable potential outcome looping SocialHub into the discussion, so something that I take into account before linking to posts here from SocialHub (just as I do on Bluesky or my blog), or looping SocialHub in if and when that ever starts working.

"If we want to design a better more inclusive fediverse then we need to deeply understand the problem space and able to discuss matters that may be sensitive and controversial, in a creative environment where solutions can be brainstormed. Does a global public square where people jump in with context collapse support that?"

Yes, actually, I have good discussions about that on Bluesky too, although context collapse can be a challenge. And my discussions here (which isn't a global public square) are generally a lot better than on SocialHub.

"Were you communicating in activism / raising awareness style to an audience, or in brainstorm mode?"

I was calling you in on advocating for approvingly amplifying a view of decentrlization advocated by a fan of Curtis Yarvin who has the Peter Thiel / Marc Andreessen seal of approval.

We then proceeded to discuss the view itself, that decentralization "requires a centralized substrate".

"That's really hard to tell, even for us directly involved, let alone for the casual passer-by seeing a toot."

There's no way for you to know my intent, but it was very very easy for you to tell that I was choosing not to include SocialHub in the audience for this thread.

@smallcircles @laurenshof

"Anti-Black" doesn't imply intent. 5 things white people can do to start making the fediverse less toxic for Black people has a definition and links to a bunch of references.

"Anti-Blackness – beliefs, attitudes, actions, practices, and behaviors of individuals, institutions, software, and systems that devalue, minimize, and marginalize the full participation of Black people across the world"

But impact > intent. Active participants on #SocialHub have created an environment where Black people almost never participate. Similarly whether or not the guy who showed up in this thread intended the things he was saying to be anti-Black, they are.

It's frustrating because Hellekin clearly intended SocialHub to be an anti-racist space -- and devoted some real effort to it, working with Rhiaro and the community in a grassroots process to refine and get adoption of a very strong Values statement even though some people left as a result. And Hellekin continues to take real and concrete actions in aid of it -- kicking out Alex Gleason, actively supporting my intervention last fall in the How to make progress on the almost complete absence of Black people in SocialHub and SWICG discussions? thread.

But, alas, alnosst none of the white active participants on SocialHub make a similar effort. There were plenty of good recommendations in that about concrete straightforward things people could do as individuals and collectively to improve the situation ... but they chose not to.

And tying it back to the "centralized substrate" conversation, my guess is that you didn't intend to adopt the perspective of somebody who's advocating for universal adoption of a system grounded in stealing Native Americans property and ignoring treaties, chattel slavery and white supremacy. It's quite possible that you didn't realize the implications of him being a big fan of the white supremacist Curtis Yarvin, or realize that white surpemacists Peter Thiel and Marc Andreessen are big fans of the guy whose views you're advocating for and amplifying.

But, impact > intent. You're aligning with Thiel and Andreessen to amplifying and advocating these views, without disclosing the politics behind them. You've let these white supremacist-friendly views shape your thinknig about decentralization, and probably other issues in general. Like I said in an earlier post

"fascist tech oligarchs and their minions aren't all just stopped clocks, some are quite good at using apparently politically neutral "insights" to warp people's thinking by disguising their pro-fascist framing -- and at getting people who don't agree with their politics to amplify their propaganda. "

@smallcircles @laurenshof

🎯 Mission. Support communication and cocreation of all participants in the #ActivityPub ecosystem to help foster healthy growth and #evolution of the fediverse.

☀️ Vision. An inclusive #fediverse, collectively evolved, where people can find friends and peers in safe environments, to communicate and engage in rich social activities of all kinds.

🫂 Audience. Any fedizen from across the globe who interacts with others on the basis of #Humanity and respect of each other’s #Freedom and #HumanRights.

I necro-posted this #SocialHub topic I started long ago about "Community has no Boundary". We must design for community. Just connecting #ActivityPub apps randomly to a microblogging experience is not a way to get there.

Forum software may offer great Community support, but once you federate and connect into a microbloggoverse that whole concept of community is severely impacted.

Design for community starts with discovering Needs and objectives, and going from there.

https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/standardizing-on-a-common-community-domain-as-ap-extension/1353/47

@laurenshof

Well formulated re: and indicative of larger challenges that exists in our grassroots ecosystem.

For et al open standards its vital that the people involved in the ecosystem look beyond their own project's scope and tend to foundational tech they rely on.

[removed quote]

There is a sort of paradox where the more we decentralise the ecosystem the more important it is that we can rely on open standards to guarantee good levels of interoperability.

@laurenshof

Well formulated re: and indicative of larger challenges that exists in our grassroots ecosystem.

For et al open standards its vital that the people involved in the ecosystem look beyond their own project's scope and tend to foundational tech they rely on.

[removed quote]

There is a sort of paradox where the more we decentralise the ecosystem the more important it is that we can rely on open standards to guarantee good levels of interoperability.

Yes very well formulated re #SocialHub and the larger challenges!

its vital that the people involved in the ecosystem look beyond their own project's scope and tend to foundational tech they rely on.

Yep. Fedi as a whole doesn't have a great track record with collective action and contributing to or fundraising for shared / shareable infrastructure.

That said I'm not sure that a centralized substrate is the only approach. The article says

"money can only flow and deals can only be made if everyone has a consistent sense of property rights and contracts, and the definition of those concepts will typically be determined by whichever participant in a transaction has the more sophisticated financial and legal system"

That's very much the kind of thing a white American guy would say. For one thing it reflects complete ignorance of the history of money flowing and deals being made between different countries and cultures which despite having very inconsistent legal systems somehow made it work. But also white American guys assume our system is the most financially and legally sophisticated (because American exceptionalism) -- so evertybody will adopt the US sense of property rights and contracts, grounded in stealing Native Americans property and ignoring treaties, chattel slavery and white supremacy, and women as property.

Of course a centralized substrate is the most straightforward path, and it's not easy to imagine other approaches. But a singlie substrate is inherently power-centralizing and squeezes out diversity. And think about the ecosystem that includes some entities in the ATmosphere and some from fedi. The article talks about protocols as a substrate from the technical sense, fair enough, but here there are two and that is unlikely to change.

@smallcircles@laurenshof

@laurenshof

Well formulated re: and indicative of larger challenges that exists in our grassroots ecosystem.

For et al open standards its vital that the people involved in the ecosystem look beyond their own project's scope and tend to foundational tech they rely on.

[removed quote]

There is a sort of paradox where the more we decentralise the ecosystem the more important it is that we can rely on open standards to guarantee good levels of interoperability.

The https://forgefed.org developers are extending the specs, and asking for feedback in the issue trackers on #Codeberg, but none is forthcoming.

As a result large crowds root for @forgefed #forge federation to come along, but it will not happen anytime soon at the current pace.

@nlnet through #NGI0 provide funding to #ForgeFed, #Vervis, #Anvil, and also #Forgejo and these people are bravely forging ahead. More community help is needed though.

Same is true for #Gitlab's federation efforts.

See also this topic on #SocialHub#ActivityPub dev community, with links to various #ForgeFed related issue trackers to participate in:

https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/call-for-action-help-draw-attention-to-forgefed/5480

@forgefed @nlnet

@tijl @strypey

Yes there are many ways to slice leading to entirely different models. In terms of categories I discern:

- Business domains (e.g. Microblogging, Content management).
- Application domains (e.g. ForgeFed, Mastodon).

Above I refer more to a meta-model, but expressed as a business domain it'd be something like "Protocol development".

Protocol layers, transports, extension points, wire formats, conceptual architecture, etc. So we can talk about #ActivityPub in ubiquitous language.

@tijl @strypey

As an example, a recent related topic by @lax on #SocialHub mentions clearer layering of the protocol stack..

https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/layered-activitypub/5449

In another recent topic on #ActivityPub C2S I mention a need to discern between conceptual architecture and implementation. "Server" and "client" aren't part of the conceptual architecture, and likely need a different place in the domain model on that basis. They are different kind of abstractions than e.g. an "actor".

https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/liberating-clients-from-servers-without-throwing-out-baby-with-bathwater/5416/15?u=aschrijver

Do any fellow fediverse nerds remember the original , before it moved to a subdomain of activitypub.rocks in 2019?

I think the original domain was social.network, and I'm sure I found archived versions of it a couple of years ago. But the Wayback Machine has no records of that domain before 2019, when it had already been repurposed for something else.

So either I'm thinking of the wrong domain name, or those archived versions have been redacted since I last looked? @internetarchive

OK, I'm not going mad (phew!).

"... for a few months we have revived the #SocialHub where developers, implementors, and anyone interested in the present and future of the W3C Recommendation gather, discuss issues, and collaborate with a kind and cooperative spirit to bring forth the best of what our collective intelligence can invent.

The new SocialHub, like the previous one we had to abandon, runs Discourse ..."

@hellekin, 26 December 2019

https://activitypub.rocks/news/let-us-meet-on-socialhub.html (https://archive.is/sp7IA)

Strypey
Strypey boosted

Kia ora koutou, I've had a bit of a health scare;

strypey.dreamwidth.org/8010.ht

I'm OK, but I need to take a couple of days off doing anything potentially stressful, like working on anything related to fediverse.party or SocialHub.

EDIT: Huge thanks to all the medical workers and support staff who helped me last night. See the linked blog post for the story. You folk are legends and this government has betrayed you, along with the rest of us.