Trump has now set a deadline for Thursday next week, where he demands Ukraine signs an agreement to meet Putin’s demands:
— No NATO membership
— A reduction of its military to just 600,000 troops
— Accepting the loss of Donetsk, Luhansk, Crimea, and most of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia
— Forcing Ukrainian elections within 100 days
While Russia will
— Reenter the G8
— Have all sanctions lifted
This is not a peace agreement. This is capitulation.
@randahl Maybe people should shout from the rooftops that under Biden there wouldn't have been such a weak and bad deal
@randahl randall why are you interacting with kremlin trolls in this comment thread? That nato promise to not extend eastward has been totally debunked. Only Kremlin shills say that. You don't even see current kremlin trolls say that anymore. Even the conversation that is cited was taken out of context. And was simply a discussion, not a treaty. It's fine to address their lies but don't respond, they get credit for responses. I'm surprised at you, you should know better.
@randahl
Whatever blackmail evidence Putin has on Trump must be worse than a threesome with Epstein.
@randahl so many "no freaking ways". Sounds like Putin had decided he's LOSING!! Sounds desperate to me, so he puts the squeeze on trump's nuts to push Zelensky, but trump has no CARDS!
@randahl *a surrender agreement
Yes, it smells like a pact, Russia and the USA (or whatever is really left of those countries anyway) dividing the spoils of war between them and prompting the EU to foot the bill.
Question is now whether the EU will come together against this shameless Putin - Trump handshake and put its foot down.
@randahl
TACO.
How long before Trump flip flops again?
@randahl He should offer Alaska as well.
@randahl are you planning to go fight for Ukraine anytime soon?
Otherwise, I'd shut up about deciding how many more conscripts need to die for what you consider acceptable terms.
@randahl
I wonder how much consultation there was with the G6-other-nations about one piece of that?
#G6 #G7 #G8 #TerritorialAmbitionsInEurope #defenceguarantees
@randahl the EU has let itself and the Ukraine down terribly by allowing itself to become dependent on the US Military Industrial Complex. I worry that the EU badly needs to find a way to adapt or Trump, Putin und Xi will just divide up the world between them.
@randahl Just to clarify:
The fav is for agreeing with you.
This is capitulation and an insult to any sense of justice.
And that's before we get into how shortsighted this is even for USA, so there's neither compassion nor pragmatism in any of this.
Just the spineless lapdog Trump immediately yielding.
@randahl Trump must be ruined.
US will
- get gas infrastructure of Ukraine
- build data centers in Ukraine and Russia
- will develop mining in the arctic together with Russia
I wonder what China is thinking about this Trump-Putin-Treaty.
Interesting story:
„The above referenced WSJ article is focused on how China is currently buying up more oil than it uses to fill its massive and ever increasing oil storage capacity to the tune of 1 million barrels per day. So if China stopped buying oil to store, the global oil glut would be higher by another 1 million bpd.“
„If China really stops buying, the path toward low $50 would be very quick,” said Michael Haigh, global head of fixed-income, currencies and commodities research at Société Générale.
„This is the structural change that will destroy the long-term economic prospects of much of the global oil industry.“
https://powering-the-planet.ghost.io/gluttons-for-punishment-oil-industry-doubles-down-against-reality/
@randahl the orange one is a Putin fellator
@randahl fuck that orange turd! And fuck his master! And fuck their minions and all those useful idiots. I'm so sick of this shit! We need to donate some money to the Ukrainians, if our governments don't do enough.
@randahl It is scandalous. Russia attacks Ukraine and wins. Diabolical.
Wish some country was brave enough to give Ukraine nuclear weapons.
@randahl
And the war will continue once Russia rearms, as they've done before.
@randahl Trump demeans himself when he takes the role of "Putin's Mouthpiece." A peace proposal without the contribution of both parties to the conflict is nothing more than empty words - there is no good faith in this. A peace broker stands between the two and brings them together with things they can agree on.
@randahl This is Putin facing economic collapse, military in taters, and a population ready to revolt. I'm guessing it's already too late to save what's left of Russia.
@randahl Yikes. I mean, I knew it was going to be bad but ... this is _bad_ bad.
I have to wonder what the proposal reads like in the original Russian, though.
Putin is holding Donny's leash after all.
The "standing against Russia" was just Donny testing Daddy out.
But Daddy was firm.
And Daddy showed his love for Donny when the UN Security Council allowed Donny to be King of Gaza.
And now Trump must be a very obedient boy and do as he's told.
That way the punishment that he's earned by being bold will be moderated.
Maybe it will only be Trump's "likes them young" actions in the Epstein files that see the light of day this year.
@randahl
I still remember the original 10-point peace plan in 2022
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%27s_Peace_Formula
@randahl
Ukraine has received absolutely nothing from the US since the Biden administration and Russia doesn’t deserve to have anything since they started the war so why should Ukraine walk away the loser in a deal between these two untrustworthy countries?
@randahl
"This is not a peace agreement. This is capitulation" is the best sentence I've read this week.
Trump is waiting for Godot. Z will ignore orders.
@randahl T is stabbing Ukraine in the back to please P. It should be opposed in the strongest possible terms.
@randahl, could you please share the source of these details?
@ChristTexan it is a conglomerate of everything I could extract from CNN and Danish TV2 plus what I have read across key social media accounts involved.
@randahl oh hell no - fuck the norm, fight the war
@randahl And this wouldn't have happened if the "west" hadn't forced Ukraine to fight with their arms tied back. For years.
Despite that a weak Russia is obviously in Europe's interest (smaller threat, easier to extort for resources) we did fuck-all to make that happen, and now we have Trump being Trump.
Absolute disgrace.
@randahl Disgusting, just disusting. Dont Sign!
@randahl At least they translated the peace plan from it's original Russian.
If I didn't know better, I'd say Putin wrote up that deal himself
@randahl That is more of an angerment then an agreement. I know meant agreement, but that is what I see when I see such preposterous nonsense from Putin and Trump.
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It capitulation without agreement.
one would think Putin has the upper hand from this over the top, no way in hell offer he is making.....I think this smells like Putin threatening to pull whatever he has on trump out in the open, which would destroy trump.....cuz trump didn't spend one second thinking what his next move should be. Must be something along the lines of whatever is in the Epstein files...maybe everything in the files. Zelensky cannot back down. EU BEST not back down; they'd Never live it down.
@randahl well that's that nice 👍
@randahl Trump is Putin's most useful tool. Ukraine needs to tell him to get fucked.
@randahl
... even a European capitulation. We all know - or at least should...
@randahl
And it is entirely unacceptable.
On To Moscow!
End Putin.
@randahl Also the agreement is EXTREMELY sloppily written:
”It is expected that Russia will not invade neighboring countries”
What is this vague bullshit, really? Come on!
@randahl i rememember Zelensky saying he expect similar "peace" deal to gaza ans I been aaying you don't want that because it is a surrender plan https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/zelensky-says-gaza-peace-deal-145200366.html
@randahl It seems to me that Trump is really concerned about being the dog that didn't bark, and maybe about people finding out who Bubba is, so he has to distract everyone by selling out Europe to Russia.
Or is it that Putin knows who Bubba is, and Trump maybe needs to keep him quiet?
This will be the Munich Agreement/Czechoslovakia all over again.
@randahl Trump is suckin' Putin's nanopenis and meanwhile squirting the curtains of the Oval Office with some Heinz.
@randahl Really hoping Zelenskyy tells orange piggy to go fimself.
@randahl Fuckin' dumb proposal !
@randahl Trump treason to freedom and democracy. US House and Senate… it’s up to you to defend Ukraine, freedom and democracy!
@randahl You can never trust a Seppo! Australia should abandon AUKUS, close Pine Gap and boot the Seppos out of the Northern Territory
And this is not going to happen I assume. With friends like Trump who needs enemies?
@randahl it seem trump is deaf.
The Ukrainian President cannot sign it even if he wanted it .... unlike Trump he follow the constitution of Ukraine, and this constitution do not give the president any power to "cede" any territory of Ukraine.
@randahl i think it basically means that they tell us to surrender, Russia will just take control over everything, so silly Yanukovych will probably rule Ukraine if it will get into Russian hands 😔
@randahl Every time Trump speaks to his Russian overlord, Ukraine suffers. We need to support Ukraine as it has spent years defending our eastern flank
@randahl Didn't Ukraine also agree to give rare earth minerals so Trump is pleased? Oh my goodness these people are so untrustworthy.
@randahl zelensky should not follow anything a war criminal wants him to do i hope he doesnt go through with it
@randahl Putin knows what is in those Epstein files.
@randahl hold Ukraine. Don't give in. Slava Ukraini
@randahl Yes, it is an agreement between a psychopathic mobster who is a war criminal and murderer, and a pathological liar who is as stupid as he is ruthless, and a pedophile criminal to boot. What else can we expect?
@randahl
Counter proposal.
Make Muscowy Small Again.
Two dictators have negotiated as a tragic replica of Molotoff Ribbentrop. The new world order is based on violence, oppression, and fossil fuels.
@randahl Fair agreement. We (Ukrainians) want to sign it.
The only demand from us: Putin must come to Kyiv to sign the document.
@randahl I pray he does not accept the terms apparently putin gave cheetolini to regurgitate...
@randahl And…
— Only ”significant aggression” over the ceasefire line will trigger the security gurantees: Russia can keep lobbing missiles and drones into Ukraine.
— ”NATO will place fighter planes in Poland”: No fighter planes in the Baltics.
It’s a stepping stone. It’s a Russian psy-op.
The play is on our willingness to consider ”peace” as the end, while for Russia this would only be the beginning..
But Putin is Weak, and so is Trump. They could be removed soon…
@randahl this is not a deal, this is surrender.
@randahl this isn't a peace plan it's a load of bullshit that Trump and Putin need to be told to shove it back up where it came from.
Ukrainians were given guarantees by the USA and Russia and Europe that if they gave up the nuclear weapons stationed in their country their sovereignty would be protected.
Why would you trust these two again???
@randahl
And what is the "...or else"-part here? There is nothing that the orange shitshow could take away. He can just demand and yell like a small dog. But he doesn't play at the big boys table. Why do I even write this comment? Stfu Trump, go get your diapers changed.
@momo Trump can prevent democratic countries from buying US made weapons to Ukraine.
This may be a problem, as we do not have enough production capacity in the democracies to produce all the types of weapons needed ourselves (and enough of them).
Most pressing is the need for air defence systems. Ukraine uses US made Patriot air defence systems, and if Trump prevents delivery of missiles on
Thursday, more Ukrainians will die this winter.
I hate it, but this is how it is.
@randahl
Honestly, that is indeed a problem. It's almost 25 years now that I shot a HK G36 during a training exercise, but I remember a) the disappointment that a brand new rifle shoots as imprecise as my previously assigned G3 from 1964 and b) all the news about the gun production quality afterwards (barrel gets too hot during fire in heated climate, impact on precision, etc). Put the Eurofighter on top of that and suddenly european weapons, vehicles and equipment is not very relevant and hasn't been in the last 30 years.
Yes, we could maybe ramp up the production but that doesn't improve the quality. Anyone remember Airbus A400M and how Von Der Leyen got stuck in Afghanistan because of defects?
Thank you for pointing it out, there is an "...or else" indeed.
@momo I think Germany and Sweden has come out with some really impressive weapons lately.
For instance, I am reading that Rheinmetall’s Skynex system is incredibly effective against the Russian Geran 2 drones (the Russian version of the Iranian Shahed).
@randahl @momo Skynex isn't just incredibly effective, it is the best in the world. Nothing ever produced by the USA ever came close.
Also, there are European systems (SAMP-T) working in gaps where Patriot is currently struggling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix3IAzADbFc
There really are a lot of top notch non-USA alternatives ... not everything, but a lot.
@randahl Drump can fuck all the way off back to hell
@randahl please read your 1991 agreement that you made no Nato eastward expansion you lied and were dishonest.
@bcrouse2025 please link to the 1991 document where NATO promises not to allow more countries to join. Because I keep hearing Sergey Lavrov talk about this document, but I have not been able to find it.
@randahl I saw it one time it was posted. If you are concerned perhaps you can ask the Russian Government to post it if you are not busying censoring examples facebook, twitter, google etc..
An excellent (Dutch) article about this by Dutch historian and freelance writer Hidde Bouwmeester who researched this already.
Basically at different moments there have been suggestions made, but never by someone actually with a mandate, outdated quickly during the torrent of developments in the reunification of Germany, and never put in any kind of treaty.
There were actual real treaties on the military situation that were scrupulously followed
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@randahl Between capitulation or death, I reckon the choice is clear.
@randahl The post is factually sound (matches the FT/AFP leak, verified by 10+ outlets), but "capitulation" is interpretive – Zelenskyy called it "absurd" but open to "dignified" terms (TIME, November 21). The plan, drafted by Trump's envoy Steve Witkoff with Rubio/Kushner input, resembles Putin's demands (no NATO, territory ceded), but includes U.S. guarantees (aid if Russia reinvades). Negotiations ongoing; Ukraine rejects cessions but seeks talks (Zelenskyy, November 21).
Doesn't really seem like US promises for aid of _any_ kind are really bankable, does it?
Hasn't this stupid non-starter already been rejected by both Ukraine and the EU?
@randahl The USA is not our ally. Let's be real now.
@randahl I hope Zelensky will wave at trump with 2 middle fingers, with all of Europe behind him.
@randahl
The Art of the Deal. Just terrible, just terrible.
@randahl funny, I must have missed when Trump became a Russian
@randahl This is a slap in the face of all Ukrainians by 2 dictators. Absolutely inacceptable.
@randahl Trump the dog doing his master’s bidding. Whatever Putin has on him must be juicy. (Also, he tried to argue for letting Russia back into the G8 in his first round cosplaying as president.)
@randahl Profanity is warranted here.
Fuck off Trump.
(I mean, that applies every day, but here, applies specifically).
@randahl And all because the fucking pedophile wants people to stop talking about Epstein.
@randahl it's the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, but not in secret
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