@violetmadder @anton @glassresistor there is no blame here, only the idea that we are all imperfect and maybe we can work together on that, because it is incredibly difficult, and every single one of us is fighting a hard battle that we cannot see
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@Em0nM4stodon Also: why only protect children against hyper-addictive algorithms? Why are hard drugs banned but highly addictive social media not?
@Em0nM4stodon Also an acceptance that it's _absolutely fine_ to drive a young woman into self-harm and suicide to sell her slimming products, or to drive a young man into violent rape, if they're 18 but not if they're 17.
@Em0nM4stodon
Thank you for explaining clearly and effectively the scope of what it actually does. It’s been really poorly explained in most places.
@Em0nM4stodon And now they're trying to put this — all of it — into operating systems.
@Em0nM4stodon @drahardja Being inside HIV advocacy's social network groups for years, I've met plenty of people living with HIV, who prefer to have an anonymous profile (including my best friend) and it's not always matter of "they can't talk to family and their backgrounds about their status". Not necessarily. My best friend is out, I mean family, work, friends, are aware of his HIV status but he hasn't a social profile any longer, except the nickname on my server's gotosocial, because he doesn't want strangers to associate him to a walking virus. Let's talk frankly: when you are on social network platforms for a specific purpose, it's not always the same feedback from people. If you are a company, you'll be associated to your brand. But if you are an HIV advocate, HIV becomes your brand. And Alex doesn't want this.
Not to talk about porn. Everyone of us has the right to watch something "spicy" without being judged. And sex stigma is the reason why age verification hasn't found so many obstacles. The bait of kids protection has pushed, but porn watchers' silence, due to fear of judgment, have made the rest.
And well, let's even talk about blind people like me: most age verifications are made by selfies. Means that if you're blind, you must ask for someone's help to verify your identity on an adult site. Yes, adult sites are not just videos and images. In this algorithmic era, even sex education and HIV prevention could be considered "mature".
Age verification cuts us blind folks off. Cuts trans people off (documents change, face modification with surgery or whatever, etc). And even teens themselves. Take them away from their sex education contents, they're screwed.
I'm not a scientist, not a psychologist or society expert. I'm a computer user, an accessibility consultant, an HIV advocate. And I share my fears: let's monitor HIV related data for next 5, 6 years. I expect them to increase exponentially and sex contents de facto prohibition will be one of the cause. Not the only, of course. I hate to simplify complex reality. But our politicians all over the world are simplifying reality this way: "minors must be protected -> let's create age verification fences".
* making every profile WAY more precious for Adtech, since it's validated and at least guaranteed to be human
Never forget: Meta is massively lobbying _for_ age verification - it's not a battle againt big tech.
@Em0nM4stodon
In all the discussions I see on this issue, the power and the responsibility of parents - is completely missing. These proposals all seems to be a pretext for sucking up all data about everyone from their earliest years.
@Em0nM4stodon you’re quite right in pointing out that the anonymity is lost. That in itself is bad enough. But far more sinister is that absent anonymity people will start to self censor, knowing that the object of their criticism can find out who they are and come after them.
This is what happens in totalitarian states, not free democracies
@Em0nM4stodon Or just say "that's not worth it", stop feeding the f***ing SoMe nightmare and live like adults. 😉
@Em0nM4stodon like seriously, if authorities around the world cared about age-gating porn like they are on linux systems and the others, the world would have been a much better place.
and definitely will have saved much more children.
@Em0nM4stodon not to mention children and especially teenagers will just use sketchy sites that don't ask for verification and are hosted in countries that dont police that kind of thing and aren't willing to enforce foreign court orders or convictions which will just put them in more danger of course the answer that the people who came up with these laws will inevitably come to is well will just make the ISPs block those sites and we make up them fast enough it will be block any unapproved site
Basically, someone needs to just remind Congress that every time they log into Tinder, Only Fans, or Grindr that information is now available to everyone, because those "age verification" docs will be available for hackers to doxx their computers in about 1 second flat.
@Em0nM4stodon
> scale-up state censorship and discrimination
Oh, this is for the security. Of the Epstein Class. The clanging of sharpened pitchforks and the smoke from the torches being lit can already be heard very clearly over there.
> This isn't about protecting the children.
Actually in EU they are much concerned about the security of your wallet. Peddled in a way that masses think their money but rulers can always say "your wallet needs to keep your government issued papers".
As for the #AgeVer – it needs no identity tied to a device whatsoever. But reasonable parents would like to keep their preschool children free from violence and perversions stamped on the politicians' faces.
@Em0nM4stodon I think taking the same "slippery slope" approach gun people do to this stuff is the way. I don't think 'birthdays' matter much, I don't think 'age' is a big deal to anyone in particular when it comes to user accounts or privacy...
...but when you combine the various components coming together, age verification, no foreign routers, secureboot and TPM requirements, and then add a few more, you end up building The Great Firewall of America, and it's much harder to circumvent than China's.
I think a loud movement of people from across the political spectrum saying "hey, we see where this is going, we know that both dominant political parties would love this level of control, and we reject ANY move in that direction" would be the best strategy.
@Em0nM4stodon
Also, recording absolutely everythign every child does online in every context and amassing precise data exactly on what they are able to see and what they want to see, tied to their real identies.
That data is absolutley required to be collected, because if it's not collected, how could you possibly keep them away from things they shouldn't see?
Yes, the push for 'safety for children' puts them in EXPLICT harm and implicit ridiculous privacy invasion.
»Diminishing the value of official identification due to the inevitable data breaches, eventually pushing the system to require even more intrusive identification techniques, such as iris scans and fingerprints.«
Next step, rarely considered – very important to highlight. Thank you!
@Em0nM4stodon Interestingly, so far "age verification" for things that actually shouldn't be accessible to teens like hardcore porn and sites selling vapes is ticking a box
@Em0nM4stodon by far my favourite part is how absurd this list gets and yet how it could be reality in, lets say, 10 years
@Em0nM4stodon The internet was born in small spaces. Niche networks of interconnected interest groups using simple protocols to communicate. Our biggest weapon against this is to empower people to create those networks with their own compute. Our biggest enemy is the push to turn every device into a cloud provider's thin client. We can always resist as long as, in everyone's hands and homes, there is a general purpose, Von Neumann architecture, computational engine.
@Em0nM4stodon saving the children while the Epstein Class is still on the loose. Typical: crimizalize the poor for the richman's crimes.
@Em0nM4stodon The harms of Social Media that they claim to be protecting children from are harmful to *everyone*. Age verification isn’t the answer and just throws petrol on an already huge privacy dumpster fire…
@Em0nM4stodon nodds in agreement
" #AgeVerification" is just yet another #FalsePretense for more #Cyberfascism, #SurveillanceState & #PoliceState!
- Thus it is our moral obligation to not.only #RefuseToComply but teach everyone to circumvent this bs!
- And if that means we gotta "drop off #USB #Flashdrives" with #Tails like Darlene in #MrRobot then so be it!
@Em0nM4stodon THE INTERNET IS RAN BY THE GOVERNMENT, DUDE. No ones banning anyone and your legal identity being tied to a public display name that ISN'T a legal identity is absolutely NOT a danger to the public. You're being EXTREMELY counter productive and making it look like YOU use the internet to harbor fugitives who are banned from use of the internet for BEING dangerous to those groups you just mentioned ON THE INTERNET. People get banned from the public domain when they become offenders.
@Em0nM4stodon If it was illegal for social media companies to use and sell personal details, then the lobby (funded secretly by Meta, Google, Apple) for removal of privacy would evaporate.
Children are not protected by revealing full ID info by everyone, that is a lie.
@Em0nM4stodon ah yes, i also anonymize myself throughout social media to protect my privacy 
@Em0nM4stodon they day I have to provide ID to use your service is the day I cancel, it's pretty simple.
And it doesn't take much to antagonize the current government in the US:
"The ICE agent wanted more than a month’s worth of electronic data, but offered no information as to what, exactly, caught the agency’s attention. When John Doe’s attorneys later reviewed their Reddit posts, they found nothing to suggest criminal activity or intent.
"There was a thread from early January, after news outlets including The Intercept identified Jonathan Ross as the ICE officer who shot and killed 37-year-old Renee Good in Minneapolis. Commenting on a Minnesota Star Tribune article, another Reddit user posted that Ross might be welcomed as a hero in Florida or Texas. John Doe responded by sharing that Ross had lived in Chaska, Minnesota; grew up in Indiana; and served in the Indiana National Guard — biographical details that were circulating widely at the time. “Hopefully he moves up to Stillwater State Penitentiary,” they wrote.
"In another post, a Reddit user asked what they should write on an anti-ICE protest sign. John Doe suggested the lyrics to a song: “Urine speaks louder than words.” In a third instance, Doe wrote, “TSA sucks and we all know it.” According to the Reddit user’s attorneys, these were the most aggressive posts they could find."
https://theintercept.com/2026/04/10/reddit-ice-protest-grand-jury/
@Em0nM4stodon if they cared about the well-being of children and developmental problems with being exposed to the the internet they'd be talking about different thing.
You'd want to make the internet less addictive and dangerous, by limiting ad-tracking and algorithmic systems the incentivize mass data harvesting. Force public-facing spaces to effectively moderate to keep from being dangerous to children.
You'd want to make the material environment more hospitable to doing anything other than sitting inside on a computer all day. Limiting cars so it's safe to be outside, promoting public parks, social programs and child-friendly public events.
You'd want to make the internet less addictive and dangerous, by limiting ad-tracking and algorithmic systems the incentivize mass data harvesting. Force public-facing spaces to effectively moderate to keep from being dangerous to children.
You'd want to make the material environment more hospitable to doing anything other than sitting inside on a computer all day. Limiting cars so it's safe to be outside, promoting public parks, social programs and child-friendly public events.
@anton @Em0nM4stodon ok but what about our complicity here? Everyone wants “free” services that they don’t have to pay for. What is the actual price for that?
@codinghorror @anton @Em0nM4stodon what has that to do with making the internet safer?
@codinghorror @Em0nM4stodon The problems of algorithmic tracking and individual micro-targeting are distinct and much more pernicious than the problems of ad-supported media in general
Long term the project of 99finches is to convince local businesses in Iowa to advertise here instead of on platforms that have been proven in open court to have screwed over their business clients on ad purchases. Then use that revenue to pay people in Iowa to do the long-term work needed to make the Fediverse a serious threat to big tech.
Long term the project of 99finches is to convince local businesses in Iowa to advertise here instead of on platforms that have been proven in open court to have screwed over their business clients on ad purchases. Then use that revenue to pay people in Iowa to do the long-term work needed to make the Fediverse a serious threat to big tech.
@anton @Em0nM4stodon I like this plan a lot.
@codinghorror @anton @Em0nM4stodon
What about it? The moral injury of getting roped into being "complicit" in our own oppression is just one more way they damage us and try to convince us we somehow brought this bullshit on ourselves.
Imagine, for a moment, a world where people could easily get their basic needs met. If disposable income was an actual thing, people would not be in nearly such a hurry to jump for the dangerously predatory "free" shit on offer from the people who helped make sure we're poor in the first place.
@violetmadder @codinghorror @anton @Em0nM4stodon and frankly "people only want free stuff" was never true.
people were always willing to pay a reasonable price for media or software. its just always been priced as a luxury to maximize profits for middlemen. also the shift to free wasnt consumer or creator driven but seller driven as the growth over profits practice is how we got here.
@Em0nM4stodon It is not a bug, It is a feature.
