@davidgerard ok fair. Thanks. I’ve voted for 3

@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @tante

@firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante

The translation engine wouldn't even be an issue if it wasn't for your attempt to tie it into the kill switch for so-called "AI" software that shouldn't be necessary because the Eliza chatbot software has negative value.

It's a distraction from the real issue, and you know it's a distraction from the real issue.

@firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante at first I thought lumping the translation models with the rest of genAI shit in your poll was just incompetence from execs/board members without enough knowledge on this matter. Now I think it's intentional, and pathetic.

I mean, I have never seen anyone complaining about it (why would anyone? it's a non commercial AND ACTUALLY USEFUL thing, runing locally without sharing anything outside, made in collaboration with public unis, and from what I've seen all the training data is public domain, opensource or similar, that's how these things should be done).

But now I remember how aibros insist in lumping LLMs with classic neural networks etc as if everything was the same to give credibility to LLMs. So now people opposing their shitty LLM integration are opposing translations too of course and that shows how unreasonable they are.

@firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante when did you start calling the translation engine “AI”?

I don’t think I’ve seen it referred to that way until after people started objecting to more recent things more consistently referred to as “AI”

@firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante fwiw people who used Firefox for decades are telling you they won’t use it anymore and you’re fwiw-ing them as if you think they’re just too stupid to make their own decisions about what they do and don’t support rather than taking their VALID CONCERNS and treating them with respect.

FWIW I also am no longer using Firefox and have used it for decades. When people tell you what they want and you tell them to eat shit they’re not going to want to come back. This is customer service 101 but no one seems to know how to make products worthwhile anymore. You are “innovating” to get more cash flow but not worrying about the stability of the customers you have. You guys will regret that very quickly - just like Target and Spotify and allllll these other companies that do this same exact thing.

Cheers. No one wants Ai and no one cares about it.

@firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante

Firefoxwebdevs, would you please stop muddying the waters by conflating machine translation with generative AI? You know they're not the same, you pointed it out in your poll.

@davidgerard @rsn @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @tante I think I broadly agree with this.

The pop-up analogy is interesting enough, but the problem with it is that tabs and pop-up blockers are generically useful browser features — they might have been built for the kind of person who uses pop-up laden trash websites, but we all benefit.

I don't really know what Firefox's planning board looks like but I'd bet money there are tickets knocking about at the bottom of some forgotten backlog with names like "improve custom search engines" and "finally do something with that 'sideview' experiment" — dig those out and do them. I bet AI users would love to be able to easily make ChatGPT their default search engine and have it open in a sidebar by default — and the rest of us would doubtless get some utility from those things as well. You can refocus your priorities around a class of user without pivoting the entire company. Putting AI right in the browser is like a headphones company realising people listen to music on the train and instead of improving noise cancellation, building a set of headphones *with an integrated train*.

We're not going to combat Bad AI with Good AI. What on Earth makes anyone at Mozilla think they can make a better AI than Apple managed? It's utter nonsense.

Firefox is a web browser. ChatGPT is a website. They work together just fine out of the box.

@davidgerard @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @tante

We *might* miss the point thinking like this and be condemned to not see the FF market share rise again, since all people wanting AI probably already moved over to AI browser. Hence not finding them using FF.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want AI. But I don't live alone.

EDIT. I *was an undergraduate students teacher for 2 years* and I can tell the very large majority of the youth use AI, for many many use cases. Even though it's prohibited.

@sef nothing. @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs

@jesterchen @duke_of_germany ah, I thought 🤷 was well understood to mean "I don't know/care, I just want to see the results". It's pretty commonly used, but clearly not commonly enough. Sorry!

@crowgirl

lol hachyderm won't let you link me