Discussion
Raw numbers are perhaps not enough to get across just how bad the centralisation of the Fediverse by mastodon.social is. I've done a chart to show this visually, hopefully this will make the situation clearer?
Given the circumstances, getting people to join other servers except mastodon.social would greatly help decentralise the Fediverse. It's no longer big vs medium vs small, it's more like supergiant deathstar mastodon.social vs everyone else 😞
@FediGarden
mastodon.world has always worked for me since initially joining.
@FediGarden literally the next post in my feed
To be fair, they do seem to now be listening, just got this as a reply to the post:
@FediGarden How has this changed over time? Has mastodon.social's share of the Fediverse been growing over the years?
Yes, in 2023 it was approx 15%
This was when they started the policy of promoting mastodon.social and hiding the other servers on their signup process.
@FediGarden
I'm a blind reader of yours. If you alt text your image, more people will boost and also you'll give readers such as myself full access to your valuable posts.
@FediGarden Oh! Thank you so much for adding.
And: Get off mastodon.social tooters!!!
@FediGarden I'm not very in the loop on Mastodon matters, but on Lemmy when the masses came from Reddit - A LOT of those users had active disdain for everything about defederation and FOSS.
They pretty openly wanted to make it like Reddit, a singular server defederated from any server that leaned left of Hillary Clinton lol. SO MANY SERVERS defederated the "official" server for being ML.
I spent half of my time there telling people if they hate socialism so much they should get off Lemmy 😂
@FediGarden I was lucky in that when I joined I did very little homework, but landed on c.im which sofar has been great.
Once again for those in the back (and still on mastodon.social). If I can successfully and quite easily move over to beige.party then you can move to your instance of choice. A few steps involved but none of them difficult.
@FediGarden Hi there - I’ve just joined the Mastodon team full time, and part of my role is working on mastodon.social and mastodon.online. I’m just getting started and still in learning mode, but I want to say that I’m aware of this issue and the team is actively discussing how we can evolve in a way that both delivers on #Mastodon’s promise of decentralization, and provides a “safe landing place” for new users. I’m grateful for all the ideas and writing you’ve shared. I’m listening, and thank you.
@haubles @FediGarden
Thought about this yesterday and dropped few points, hope they can be helpful somehow... https://mastodon.online/@koteisaev/115618149021946934
@haubles the easiest temporary solution is to make mastodon.online the default server to join and maybe actually close regs on mastodon.social until you have figuref it out.
(I'm glad you are discussing it though)
May I suggest checking out how choosing an instance works on PieFed, another platform in the Fediverse. You click "register" on any instance and it gives you a couple alternatives to choose from beside the one you're currently browsing, presented as equals. There is a system for determining which instances are safe to show on that list.
The PieFed developers are sure to engage in a fruitful conversation about how this works on their zulip chat, http://chat.piefed.social .
@haubles @FediGarden thanks for being aware of the issue and willing to work on it.
I’ve domain-blocked mastodon.social because it has too many bots, spammers and low-quality accounts. I doubt it would fly but what about the inverse - mastodon.social is defederated? People can try it out but it’s only a sandbox. You can get real fediverse access by finding another server. The landing page gives you both options (sandbox or real fedi) and based on your interests/location can suggest a suitable server.
Hey - thanks for messaging me about this and I'm sorry for the delay in getting you added to the Server Directory. We're working through a backlog of applications to the directory now. And simultaneously, we're revisiting how the Server Directory works to make it much easier and faster for servers to be added. I know this isn't a very concrete answer, but I can promise we'll have more to share soon.
@haubles @luca @FediGarden Hi! Is it still the case that only instances running Mastodon can be listed?
@haubles @FediGarden i hope that anyone will make migration easier and also, make it exports everything, just dont ignore followed hash in export processs would be great
@haubles @FediGarden why not curate a few associated instances with verified good behaviour, and also donate them some money to cover their infra costs?
@haubles @FediGarden One important function to make it easy for people to move from one instance to another would be the import of the exported posts. Some fediverse SW like Sharkey and GTS offer this functionality.
@haubles @FediGarden Instead of considering mastodon.social as a “safe landing place,” we should consider it as a “safe launching place.” In other words, accounts on mastodon.social should be considered starter accounts, and the job of mastodon.social should be helping new arrivals learn enough about the fediverse to decide where they want to land.
@haubles this is so wonderful to hear! Good luck in your new position.
Hearing this I'm hopeful the issue of balancing on-boarding experience against encouraging new folks to join other instances is going to get handled in a thoughtful way, just as the quote-toots were. This is all very exciting!
Thank you 😊 We are working very hard to make sure everything we do evolves in a thoughtful way, and in a way that protects and reflects the needs our community.
Hi Hannah,
Thank you for taking the time to reply about this 🙏
If it's any help for the discussions within Mastodon, Nextcloud solved this issue by drawing up a pool of reliable instances with good track records, then recommending one from the pool on a rotating basis.
Because they only recommended one at a time it avoided the "paralysis of choice", but as it was rotated it spread the growth, and because the pool was all reliable instances it maintained a level of quality.
@FediGarden of course! 💞
That’s one solution we’re discussing. And we’re looking at it from the account migration perspective too. We know it needs to be easier to switch instances. The technical solutions will take time, but there are things we will start doing immediately to try and help this in the meantime, too - things like doing more education about the existence of other servers, improving tutorials about how account migration works now, revisiting the server covenant, etc. Are there any other non-technical things we should start doing immediately, while the technical changes are in progress?
@haubles @FediGarden I just had an idea that is technical but Lower lift:
Allowing a server to pick a recommended server.
When server A closes their registration, the sign up page can say "Sorry, we're closed for registration. Please wait or consider signing up at <example.com>"
That way, someone new to the fediverse, trying to sign up isn't immediately hit with a dead end
@haubles @FediGarden Hi there, everything is technical, but a guided wizard to choose an instance according to theme, size, location, etc would help a lot. I'm sure I'm not the one to first say this so I apologize beforehand!
Yeah, there are many different aspects to this, definitely!
Switching the "Join mastodon.social" buttons to instead recommend a different server from a pool would be the quickest and easiest first step. It wouldn't need technical changes, it could be manually edited, and recommended server changed manually monthly or whatever? (Obviously you would need to check first with server admins that they are okay being in recommended pool 🙂 )
1/2
About helping people move, if you find any of the text on my site at https://fedi.tips useful it is available for anyone to use and build upon under CC-By-SA 4.0
I know my site's appearance has a slightly more janky homemade feel which may not fit in with your site's slicker appearance, but perhaps some of the text might be useful?
My transfer guide is at https://fedi.tips/transferring-your-mastodon-account-to-another-server/ for example.
Whatever you decide, thank you for communicating, it's greatly appreciated!
2/2
That is really kind, thank you. I love your site and all the work you do. It may not be everyone’s taste, but personally I adore your sites’ styling. Long-time admirer here 🤗 you helped me get my feet underneath me on the #fediverse, and now it’s become my career. Thank you.
I love fedi.tips's language.Its simplicity amazes me and at the same time so helpful!
@FediGarden I wonder where misskey.io would be on this graph
@FediGarden I already join mastodon.world so I have two accounts. I didn’t know when I join mastodon.social until you guys mention different server I tried understand how that works. Now I got it but oh well!
@FediGarden ooof, did not realise it was this skewed.... time to move instance then! 😅
If you want help moving there's a complete step-by-step guide at https://fedi.tips/transferring-your-mastodon-account-to-another-server 🙂
@FediGarden Thanks! Saves me some searching 👍
@FediGarden I feel like this is really easily solvable by just having the apps randomly cycle which server is selected by "default" when people are signing up. Obviously still give the option for people to manually select their preferred network, but by having the default random.
Just limit the random server selection to something like 10-20 reputable instances that have a track record of quality administration. That would avoid sending people to an instance that is unsupported and at a higher risk of shutting down.
Yup, that's what a number of people have been saying, and it's what e.g. @nextcloud does on their Nextcloud instance picker.
Get a pool of reliable servers with a good long track record, recommend them in rotation instead of recommending mastodon.social.
@FediGarden @mthx I mean, they already curate a list of recommended instances that have pledged to follow the Mastodon Server Covenant on joinmastodon.org... It seems like it'd be trivial to use that list (or portions thereof) in a rotating carousel in the app/website that picks one at random during the onboarding flow. If memory serves, doesn't Pixelfed do something like this too?
@FediGarden @mthx @nextcloud Wow.. this is how I find out that you can use Nextcloud as a user? I thought it was only meant for self-hosting..
Install bonfire.cafe
Get the full app experience
@FediGarden I'm fairly sure if migration was actually a thing¹ on Mastodon, some people who initially joined mastodon.social would move to another instance compatible with their content.
But then I'm also fairly sure that that's an insignificant fraction of the mastodon.social population :/
I wouldn't mind having a usable local timeline again, if anything :D
¹: no, migrating follow lists is not actual migration