I'm thankful to @demoographics for pointing out the costs to the community that's happening at the moment with LLMs.
As a Debian user, I do hope the community doesn't accept code contributions from LLMs.
Discussion
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Discussion
@demoographics is entirely right with all they wrote to the mailing list. But we (not only #Debian, rather all larger free software distributions) are in an unpromising position: The #Linux #kernel itself does contain #AI generated code already or will contain such code RSN. We also cannot rule out, that other relevant upstream projects will take a #genAI friendly policy regarding code contributions. No matter, if we like it or not: We cannot exclude #LLM generated code categorically.
@debacle @demoographics True, but that's the kernel, Debian can choose if it's developers can.
Debian tends to take a pretty strong stance on how it provides non free code. I think that will be undermined if it's developers are allowed to use LLMs.
We can already see the issues elsewhere. Debian also already has this issue with projects like Calibre.
#Debian has a very strong stance of #freeSoftware, indeed, but #LLM is orthogonal.
There is no common understanding in the project about other aspects of #ethics. We have non- #vegan food at our conferences, we work with Google and Microsoft in many ways, we pay for #flying etc. which some people consider unethical.
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At the moment, it seems, that #AI generated code cannot be #copyrighted, It's always #publicDomain, as pointed out by @pluralistic. From that angle, there is no problem for Debian.
If copyrighted or #copyleft code has been copied by an #LLM before, we cannot tell conclusively.
And, finally, how about using a #freeSoftware AI, such as #Lucie?
I would love to "just say no" to #genAI, but I don't think #Debian can do that 😞
@debacle If it does happen, then I stand by what I said.
I'll be disappointed and looking elsewhere. Other folks will have to consider where they want to be.
I've already seen issues where using LLMs to auto choose patches has caused breakage into the stable kernel. I object to the framing of we don't have a choice so we must just accept it.
But that's my choice. Others need to think where they want to stand.
I missed this on the proposal
"2. I used AI tools to improve my initial draft, and (7.) was
actually suggested by an AI tool."
🤦♀️🤬
@onepict I'm so happy I made the switch from another major Linux distro that is quickly getting into the danger zone to the amazing @elementary
One must ask how misplaced the trust we put in the hands of these developers was.
@steko @elementary I think for the most part the majority of #Debian developers are trustworthy.
But on that list just now we have developers trying to make the case for generative AI contributions. So they are trying to make the argument of its just tooling, like CI, Travis etc.
But that's a very narrow framing of the argument, and the damage. Which puts the burden on the Debian developer community to find out more, and consider where they stand.
We're hearing the loud folks atm.
@steko l But having recently made the move from my first distro Ubuntu, the inertia for moving has lessened.
Which in life and social networks is a good muscle to exercise.
@steko But Debian is the upstream for many distributions including Ubuntu and Elementary.
It's why when our Debian developer packages my project Librecast it ends up in many Debian variants. I'm very grateful to the work that our distributions do packaging software.
The work our Debian packager does also goes into guix.
@onepict "If any pre-existing copyrighted materials (including pre-existing code licensed as free software) authored or owned by third parties are included in the AI tool’s output, [...]"
How would the sloperator even know?
@alxndr magical thinking of course 😜
But like in all seriousness, I might have to consider Gentoo if the community chose to accept LLM contributions.
But given how hard Debian's fought to keep it's code Free I can't see this flying.