@neil i do think reading is better than 4-6 hours on the internet.

There's also a thing about having a hobby where you make things. creating art or similar fits that.

i suspeect the 4-6 hours online is mostly on soc med, which i love but it should indeed be less, if that's a day.

@neil Oh my god, we are even debating if spending +6 h a day in front of a computer or a mobile phone while your muscles atrophy, you develop scoliosis or worse and hinder your social abilities (important for development) is good or bad.

And even more, we are pretending most of that usage isn’t brain rot in TikTok. If it wasn’t MAYBE you will have a point, just MAYBE.

Socialization and movement (sports) are important. Full stop.

You guys really like to discuss obvious stuff.

@neil Strong memories of being made to stop reading and go out to play with the other kids (with whom I had little in common) when on camping holiday.

Still feels bizarre to me that my mum was *worried* about how much time I spent reading, while constantly thrusting me into social situations (like Guides and Brownies) where I wasn't welcome. Whether I wanted to do it (and WHY I didn't want to do it) was not considered relevant.

If your kid doesn't *want* to socialise, ask *why*.

@neil
I had more friends that were not at my school.
I think back then it was (at least in Germany) easier to meet people from other schools in the afternoon than it is today. The schoolkids I know today spend most of their online time socializing as fas as I'm aware.

Also I had a bunch of online friends that lived too far away, and to some I chatted on a daily basis.

I know, back then the internet was different, but it seems to me this could be addressed by "better parenting", see next post.

@neil the problem is not the amount of time spent online but what young people are actually doing. Interesting article in Commonweal Scotland today about the latest Grand Theft Auto game which is more about developing relationships with the game characters than anything else. Lonely young people are turning to these fictional relationships rather than "meat" relationships for mental health help.

@neil Exactly this - govt should stop policing young people & instead use same funds to increase youth clubs, sports centres, playing fields, youth mobility at accessible prices. Run critical thinking & media courses, increase subsidies for music tuition, cycle training, local sports teams etc.
While they are at it they can get social media cos to pay taxes & take down addictive design. Also stop using Meta platforms for official communications.

@neil Goddess all of this.

Yes my son spends more time on line than I did growing up. Of course he does. My house has a gigabit fiber running into it that's on 24/7 and wifi that reaches the every corner of the house.

When I was growing up we had a 56k modem and it was the best thing since sliced bread. We had to log off so my dad could phone grandma.

My kids school timetable and homework are apps. Its literally not possible for him to do his homework with out an internet connection.

@neil and if I don't want to meet other kids because they are assholes and my friends are far away?
And you are right. When I was 14 there was no space for us where we could meet. Too old for kiddy groups, pubs not allowed, roaming the streets in winter? There is a huge lack of safe spaces for teenagers everywhere.

@neil absolutely drives me wild. And you're spot on. It's gross controlling behavior by the folks left in the dark ages hand wringing about something they know nothing about. The adoption of that by fellow parents drives me wild. The amount of parents I've had to unbrainwash during my time as a parent that "screens" are perfectly fine, it's what you're kids do on them and how you as a parent engage with that, that needs consideration. Like you say, all books are not made equal. Exactly the same.

@neil I think the fundamental problem behind all this is that the people calling for the legislation, and the people writing it, mostly grew up in a time where you had to leave the house for most things.

They can't understand / accept that things have changed, and want their children to grow up as they did, because obviously what they did was The Right Way.

(see also: O levels vs GCSEs etc.)

@neil Anecdote time - my father didn't particularly like me reading books because he didn't know what was in them, didn't like me reading Teletext (nearest thing we had to online!) for the same reason. Didn't like the music I made. BUT! he also didn't like me going out because he didn't know who I was talking to about what, plus didn't like my friends anyway. Didn't want me going to youth clubs because they were in the church hall and I might catch the religion. It's all about control innit.

@neil a phrase I hear a lot around proposed or actual legislation in this area is "everyone knows what we mean by this".

I think what's rapidly becoming apparent is that a) I don't think everyone does know and b) even if they did, legislation doesn't work like that.

@neil "going outside and meeting people" - where and with what money?

everywhere seems hellbent on deterring teenagers, shit like those mosquito alarms in town centres were everywhere not long after I left college

@neil When there's more investment in spaces for "children" to attend and socialise together safely then there's a discussion to be had.

But in many places our libraries are closed and cutbacks on public spaces for kids.

Those legislators can go away and go away some more.

We know what it's really about. More surveillance capitalism with a veneer of "think about the children".

This in no way keeps the kids safe.