@neil I spent loads of time as a kid, when I might have been going outside, doing ham radio. That was a sort of social network before the social networks of today existed. But it was indoors.

I never really understood why "outdoors" had such prestige in some peoples' minds.

Why did we have sports days, and not physics days?

@neil also consider the variety of cultures you get exposure to online. In-person you mostly meet people from your neighbourhood whereas online you meet them from all around the world and learn things you could not in your own area.

@neil If your child overwhelmingly does one thing with their entire free time to the neglect of other things - even if it is studying - that should be a concern, because you want to raise humans who are capable of balancing responsibilities, healthy social interaction and pursuing passions. The answer is not about numbers, it's about developing a correct attitude about things in life.

@neil

"Go outside and meet people."

OK, I'll grab my e-bike.

NO! NOT LIKE THAT!

@neil kind of a sidenote but when these kind of arguments resurface I remember how the parents usually were when I was having my swimming lessons as a child in 1984 - almost every one hidden behind a broadsheet newspaper rather than watching the pool

@neil There is a difference between the two...

@neil this is a really good thread, thanks so much all!

As a parent of two teens (13/15 rn) this is very relevant... so far we have kept some simple time limits/reminders on phones. I have not set limits on PCs. I do poke my head around their doors to have a chat occasionally!

Mostly they ask for more phone time, and they get it up to a point. It is a boundary to learn to regulate themselves, which is our intention a d they understand this. I expect to remove this limit soon.

1/2

@neil Old people moaning about teenagers not exactly a new sport.

I suspect if we held public executions for the people that forced ipads into early years education the next generation might have a chance.

@neil
Around here a teenager going outside often means a concern they're doing something they shouldn't. There is a mugga thankfully at the end of my road but definitely not enough spaces for teens.

@neil i do think reading is better than 4-6 hours on the internet.

There's also a thing about having a hobby where you make things. creating art or similar fits that.

i suspeect the 4-6 hours online is mostly on soc med, which i love but it should indeed be less, if that's a day.

@neil Oh my god, we are even debating if spending +6 h a day in front of a computer or a mobile phone while your muscles atrophy, you develop scoliosis or worse and hinder your social abilities (important for development) is good or bad.

And even more, we are pretending most of that usage isn’t brain rot in TikTok. If it wasn’t MAYBE you will have a point, just MAYBE.

Socialization and movement (sports) are important. Full stop.

You guys really like to discuss obvious stuff.

@neil
I get what you're saying, but people very much did that to me with books and instruments.

@neil Strong memories of being made to stop reading and go out to play with the other kids (with whom I had little in common) when on camping holiday.

Still feels bizarre to me that my mum was *worried* about how much time I spent reading, while constantly thrusting me into social situations (like Guides and Brownies) where I wasn't welcome. Whether I wanted to do it (and WHY I didn't want to do it) was not considered relevant.

If your kid doesn't *want* to socialise, ask *why*.

@neil
I had more friends that were not at my school.
I think back then it was (at least in Germany) easier to meet people from other schools in the afternoon than it is today. The schoolkids I know today spend most of their online time socializing as fas as I'm aware.

Also I had a bunch of online friends that lived too far away, and to some I chatted on a daily basis.

I know, back then the internet was different, but it seems to me this could be addressed by "better parenting", see next post.

@neil the problem is not the amount of time spent online but what young people are actually doing. Interesting article in Commonweal Scotland today about the latest Grand Theft Auto game which is more about developing relationships with the game characters than anything else. Lonely young people are turning to these fictional relationships rather than "meat" relationships for mental health help.

@neil and if I don't want to meet other kids because they are assholes and my friends are far away?
And you are right. When I was 14 there was no space for us where we could meet. Too old for kiddy groups, pubs not allowed, roaming the streets in winter? There is a huge lack of safe spaces for teenagers everywhere.