I don’t understand how a brand can claim to be “Cruelty Free” but then NOT be Vegan? How is using animal derived ingredients NOT cruel?
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@andycarolan having read the rest of your thread, I 100% agree with you about collagen being something you can't get without hurting an animal
but when you say "how can using animal products be cruelty free," my first thought is wool. have you seen how happy a freshly shorn sheep can be?
@WizardOfDocs I wouldn't be so sure about Wool... at the very least, it's still animal exploitation.
Definitely worth a read of this article... https://www.surgesanctuary.org/blog/shearing-what-do-vegan-sanctuaries-do-with-the-wool
I didn't realise this, but they have been selectively bred over generations to produce excess wool that they can't shed naturally.
@andycarolan yes, our ancestors ruined them, but shearing them now doesn't necessarily make us complicit
we're making them as comfortable as we can in the circumstances we've been left with, and then we get to be warm too
then again, all the shearing videos I've been watching are about small farms
factory farming does absolutely continue the cycle of violence
@WizardOfDocs Yeah, if anything it's about mitigating the damage that's already been done. I guess the same with overweight chickens who have been bred that way for decades too.I read somewhere that they are 400% larger now than when originally farmed 🤯
Factory farming has a lot to answer for.
@andycarolan also skeptical of PETA as a source
@andycarolan
> I don’t understand how a brand can claim to be “Cruelty Free” but then NOT be Vegan?
I share your frustration with this. But the history is that 'cruelty-free' was coined as shorthand for 'not tested on animals'. It comes from a time when vivisection was the more prominent animal rights issue.
Not being made of animal bits is a separate issue, for which 'vegan' or more recently 'plant-based' is used. I'd be pissed if a product said that and still used animal bits.
@strypey Yes, I do understand that it's more of a historical issue than a modern one.
I'm aware of products marketed as Vegan, yet contain Honey. The whole thing needs an overhaul tbh, but I imagine that's very unlikely.
Even the word "Vegan" makes a lot of people unreasonably angry.
@andycarolan
> The whole thing needs an overhaul
Ae, it's a minefield. In most cases, ethical purchase signifiers like cruelty-free, vegan, organic, free range, fair trade, etc, have no formal definition, and no regulations guiding their use. In some cases you can look for certifications, from NGOs, but even that can be hit and miss.
