Discussion
Twenty five years ago today I started the #Safari and #WebKit projects at #Apple Computer.
Which means Safari is now old enough to rent itself a car. But let's not speculate about my age.
I'm still sad I can't use Safari on my Windows PC. Alas, I lost the battle to keep it there. But at least WebKit's DNA seeded or influenced most browsers we use today.
And I'm proud of that impact. Along with the wonderful team I built who made it all happen. Here's to another 25, friends.
Cheers. 🥂😊💖
@lisamelton Safari has been my primary browser since day 1. I love it.
@lisamelton Congratulations for the aniverasary!
Safari has been my main browser since its initial release, and Vienna (that I contribute to maintain) would not exist without WebKit.
Thank you—thank you so much.
@lisamelton Do you remember the details about how Apple shipped Windows software? I vaguely recall it involved cherry-picking bits of Yellow Box from NeXTSTEP (for the Cocoa runtime I suppose?), but my recent research into old Mac APIs revealed to me that QuickTime API for Windows implemented a huge portion of the old classic Macintosh toolbox
@rezmason No, I don't remember the runtime details. And I believe they were different for various Apple Windows apps.
@lisamelton I used Safari on Windows (I think Vista) as long as it was available and loved it. Ended up switching to the Mac a couple years later.
@lisamelton I legit miss Safari for Windows. There was a brief span of time where I used Safari everywhere, and I remember it was quite nice.
@lisamelton Did Safari start out on MacOS X?
@lopta Safari, yes. It was never on the original System-7-style OS.
However, the engine we started with, KHTML+KJS, started out on Linux. We ported that to macOS and it became the basis of WebKit.
@lisamelton I seem to remember Netscape Navigator and perhaps NCSA Mosaic on classic Mac System. Any challenges porting from Linux to Darwin or MacOS?
@lopta Porting was surprisingly easy, albeit a bit tedious. We had to create API shims for all the Qt library calls used in the KDE code. Which we later replaced completely once we had it up and running.
@lisamelton Thanks for your work, Lisa! I have fond memories of using Safari when Firefox on Mac was a slow mess, and installing Safari on Windows too. Today still prefer Safari with normal WebKit over Chromium, it's just better. For many years, I was hoping WebKit would even become part of GNUstep, however the ObjC++ was a barrier 😅
@lisamelton
And #WebKit was seeded by #KHTML from the #KDE project. That should not be ignored or kept under wraps!
@lisamelton oh hey somebody oughta link this post to the “citation needed” tag on the same fact in wikipedia <3
@lisamelton thank you so much for safari! It’s my favourite browser!
@lisamelton happy anniversary!
++ epiphany runs at least on wsl 😉 so yes, you are able to run webkit on Windows. 
is there even a webkit browser for windows in general? here on linux, we have at least GNOME web a.k.a epiphany
@lisamelton Steve Jobs was alright. Kind of weird though. Like he gave his soul to Apple, took on its cancerous nature, then died, only to have his soul leave Apple when he died. Pretty sure he would have been distraught seeing how the company ended up. But just like Morgan, Carnegie, Vanderbilt, et cetera, come to realize you build what you build and then it slowly decays, at best. At worst, you end up with something like Madison Square Garden.
@lisamelton
Amazing legacy Lisa!
@lisamelton I do wish Apple still made Safari for Windows. I’d also love to see Reminders and Notes. The one reason I don’t use either is because I can’t use them on Windows. The browser versions are just so-so.
@lisamelton I remember fighting where I worked to get Safari for Windows added to our test matrix (was already there for macOS) mainly because at the time it was my daily driver! Sad that Apple didn't keep it going as it was pushing the others to innovate in UX not just adding proprietary tags. A little sad now on iOS that Apple took the opposite tack and made their rendering engine the only one! Kudos to you and your team for what you achieved.
@lisamelton what an accomplishment. Congratulations on the 25th anniversary!
Time to go crank up “I’m a Believer” by Smash Mouth, which came out that year.
@lisamelton Never used Safari or Mac, but congrats for the work done! Nice story, thanks for sharing!
If only it had a large enough significance outside of Apple.
Today, the general mainstream choice is between Gecko (Firefox) and Blink (Chromium), with Gecko slowly becoming just as niche as WebKit.
It's a shame, because I like WebKit. But as Linux, Android, or even Windows user, I could never use a browser for a daily driver today.
@Desperado1066 I'm running Linux Mint on my other PC.
Please don't mansplain. I've been using Linux since the Slackware days in the 90s.
@lisamelton @Desperado1066 ok now I feel old too (Slackware). Remember using it and Metrolink Motif... Those were definitely the days. Kids these days need everything compiled for them... 🤣
@lisamelton Thank you, Lisa!
@lisamelton I finally have the contact info for someone “in charge.”
I stopped using Safari the moment plugins had to be installed as separate applications. That really bothered me. I didn’t want a “mess” in my Applications folder. It annoyed me to have both applications and plugins in the Applications folder. From my perspective, at least, you really messed that one up.
@howking I left Apple back in 2012, over 14 years ago. So, I had nothing to do with that particular decision. And just so you know, I didn't like it either.
Safari, WebKit and certainly Apple are far from perfect. I acknowledge that.
In the future, I would appreciate it if you did your research before accusing someone of wrongdoing.
@lisamelton In that case, I'm sorry. I just misjudged when it happened. I thought it was earlier.
@howking Thank you for the apology.
@lisamelton wow seeing a person who made (or at least helped making safari) on mastodon!, welcome to mastodon Lisa!
@lisamelton It's at least trending on Mastodon Social, so don't give up. I never tried Safari for 15 years on the web, and still alive with cheap DuckDuckGo and Chrome.
@lisamelton Congrats Lisa for this anniversary on this fundamental piece of software. May your Safari go on.
@lisamelton Thank *you* for all the work; Safari has been my daily driver for over two decades now.
@lisamelton @WTL happy anniversary!
@lisamelton 🥂 Cool beans, happy anniversary Lisa
@lisamelton Safari is a good browser. I just wish it wasn't the only one I'm allowed by Apple to run on my iPhone and iPad.
@gcvsa @lisamelton Running Vivaldi on iphone and ipad. #VivaldiBrowser
@artfloral All Web browsers on iOS and iPadOS are required to use WebKit instead of their normal Web engine, be that Gecko, Blink or something else. So, Vivaldi is effectively Safari in those environments.
@lisamelton @Meyerweb Oh damn! I actually remember using Safari on Windows, at the time it was one of the nicest looking browsers for Windows, as per my taste at least.
@lisamelton Thanks and happy anniversary! 🫡 👏🏼
@lisamelton thank you, and congratulations 🎊!
@lisamelton The team is having cupcakes in celebration!
@lisamelton must be real irritating, not being able to use the browser that you developed yourself.
Strange world we live in, hope this last town square left, revives the internet.
Game development, what fun! I enjoyed it during my early career years.
Anyways 🥂 and glad that you're here on Mastodon
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