Post by @juergen_hubert@mementomori.social

@juergen_hubert@mementomori.social · 2 weeks ago

Could you all do me a favor when discussing #Israel ?

Yes, a lot of what the Israeli government is doing is very bad, and deserves to be criticized. But there is absolutely no reason to portray Israel as "The Secret Masters of the Western World" or something similarly foolish. Israel is a regional power, not a global superpower. Other state-level actors - the #USA in particular - have their own independent, shitty reasons for supporting Israel and its policies. And they have full agency in their decisions - claiming that Israel somehow "controlled" them means excusing them for their own culpability in the mess that is the world of today.

In other words, let's _not_ do a regurgitation of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion".

#antisemitism

#antisemitism #usa #israel

Ken M Sweeney

@TheComfortableSpotPodcast@mastodon.social · 1 hour ago

@juergen_hubert Nobody other than morons is giving the Israeli military regime any such credit. Without Germany and the US, Israel wouldn't last six months. In fact Israel's collapse has already begun and there's no stopping it - the more liberal- minded parts of the population with money and second passports have headed for the exit (and continue to do so), the army is at a point of collapse, the economy cannot function without US and European cash being thrown at it. It's a zombie state.

ShnoofleBear /ʃnuːfɛlbɛːr/

@ShnoofleBear@curly.cat · 2 weeks ago

@juergen_hubert Wrt to the US: Research AIPAC.

Jackie 🍉🏳️‍⚧️☭

@burnoutqueen@todon.nl · 2 weeks ago

@juergen_hubert netanyahu is a Mussolini in the grand scheme of things, not a Hitler

iwein

@iwein@mas.to · 2 weeks ago

@juergen_hubert fine, anti-Semitic conspiracy theories are more of a Nazi thing indeed...

But we are allowed to discuss the insane increase in hasbarra budget, or the international Zionist movement that predates the state of Israel openly, right?

Framing Israel as a state like any other is not in line with established historical facts.

Jürgen Hubert

@juergen_hubert@mementomori.social · 2 weeks ago

@iwein

If you want to discuss 19th century settler movements, then the Zionist movement is hardly unusual.

Heck, here in Germany we had our own "Ostokolonisierung" movement.

Also, antisemitic conspiracy theories predate the Nazis by quite some time.

iwein

@iwein@mas.to · 2 weeks ago

@juergen_hubert whataboutism

If your point is that _every_ state is as evil as Israel and all states should be abolished, I'd say that's consistent and I could agree as an anarchist and anticolonialist, but that's beside the point I presume. There's clearly levels of evil to discriminate between here, apartheid being a discriminator.

Nazi Germany _was_ abolished, and good riddance. South Africa was heavily reformed. Israel deserves a similar fate.

Jürgen Hubert

@juergen_hubert@mementomori.social · 2 weeks ago

@iwein

My point is that Israel is not _uniquely_ evil.

1+ more replies

iwein

@iwein@mas.to · 2 weeks ago

@juergen_hubert So?

Jürgen Hubert

@juergen_hubert@mementomori.social · 2 weeks ago

@iwein

"So" what?

iwein

@iwein@mas.to · 2 weeks ago

@juergen_hubert the uniqueness of the evil of Israel is completely irrelevant as far as I can see. They're evil and should be stopped, just like other evil states.

If you want to compare evil, there should be a reason for it, right?

Jürgen Hubert

@juergen_hubert@mementomori.social · 2 weeks ago

@iwein

My point is that we should not bring "Protocols of the Elders of Zion"-level shit into discussions about Israel.

Which is absolutely a thing that happens, including here on the Fediverse.

iwein

@iwein@mas.to · 2 weeks ago

@juergen_hubert yes, and I asked if you thought all criticism of Israel's unique ways of being evil was off bounds, to which you responded with all kinds of weird dodges.

I'm perfectly aware of what's happening here, my dude 🙂.

This is exactly what the increased hasbarra budget is intended to achieve, and I will have none of it.

Jürgen Hubert

@juergen_hubert@mementomori.social · 2 weeks ago

@iwein

So you _aren't_ seeing claims that Israel somehow _made_ the USA declare war on Iran, as if the US government had no agency in their decisions?

Lucky you.

Stewart

@willie1foot@theblower.au · 1 hour ago

@juergen_hubert @iwein 'Made' or 'convinced'? Evidence appears to show the gullible fools in charge in the US were convinced by the Israeli government that an attack on US interests was imminent.