@aral this struck me:
"Over time, people learn where those edges are. They avoid them. Not necessarily because they agree, but because pushing against them comes at a price. This creates a subtle but powerful effect. It shapes not only what is said, but what is explored internally. "
It's how the status quo is enforced. We see this with the UK at the moment and how folks are getting locked up for protesting genocide.
Folks not quite at the edges have something to loose so they look away.
@aral just another "BARRA BRAVA": a southamerican way to call soccer hooligans: people inmerse in deep fanatism, who confront with violence, guns and knives everyone who oppose them. Of course, they operate as a pack, never alone. That is a barra brava and that's exactly what you described here.
You don't have to go far to see this type effect.
I see these attitudes, which I consider to be one of exclusion, or "dehumanizing" in older adults and more unsettling the youth in America, in UK, mainland Europe, really anywhere and everywhere.
It seems to always accompany the extreme right, extreme greed, extreme devotion to a particular sociopathic culture or 'entertainment', or extremist religions.
@aral I've been all around the world and there had never been a place I felt more unwelcome as a progressive Jew than in Israel. And it was a long time ago, I was young and hadn't expected that, and the shock of it kinda opened my eyes and rippled though a lot of things.
@aral this struck me:
"Over time, people learn where those edges are. They avoid them. Not necessarily because they agree, but because pushing against them comes at a price. This creates a subtle but powerful effect. It shapes not only what is said, but what is explored internally. "
It's how the status quo is enforced. We see this with the UK at the moment and how folks are getting locked up for protesting genocide.
Folks not quite at the edges have something to loose so they look away.
@onepict @onepict
Same in the US. This is why America will never change in the realm of racism because white men fear loss. They don’t want to lose their money, homes, etc. from doing “the wrong thing” for strangers, so they walk the line just enough to call themselves liberals or “the left” without making any real meaningful sacrifice for change. America is very much a posh mirror of Israel. White people keep white people in check and is why white supremacy, like Zionism, will remain in this country.
@aral
A simple example: a few weeks ago I was walking in the street (not in my neighborhood, but a perfectly "normal" one) with a T shirt that said "peace". It wasn't a protest or a situation where one would expect confrontation. Just everyday life.
A teenager [a total stranger] said to me: "you're wearing a shirt saying "peace"? I hope you burn (שתישרף)".
This article helped me understand how "Normal" that kid was. It takes an outsider to see the pattern.
@zvinj I’m sorry you had to experience that. And thank you for sharing it.
@aral There's a great airport book called The Culture Code, about attitudes worldwide and how to adjust your expectations in dealing with people. There are two countries that are outliers in terms of bluntness, giving you negative feedback in front of others, and other such behaviours which make them come across as assholes to others - Russia and Israel.
I tread very carefully when dealing with people from these countries, and prefer to keep my interactions functional and short.
@aral
This suggests that, analogous to the de-nazification in Germany after WW2, a comprehensive de-zionisation of Israeli society was necessary. However, like in Germany, this can only succeed after a complete defeat of the Israeli army and state apparatus. The problem is that there is no coalition of allied forces in sight who are willing to bring this about.
The de-nazification in Germany was a failure. Then there's Austria, where things were worse.
A "some animals are more equal than other animals" comes to mind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification#Hiding_one's_Nazi_past
The USA were friendly with Hitler at first, and eventually they joined in to fight against Nazi Germany. Only to profit from it. Then there's the Marshall plan for recovery of Europe which may explain why still so many European countries think the USA is a sort of promised land and the ultimate ally to rely on, whether it is for Big Tech or for military defense. Meanwhile the Nazis were not all punished. Some got huge promotions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
When it comes to Zionism and Israel. Countries like USA, UK, Netherlands and perhaps especially Germany are very complicit.
The fact that many Germans prefer to communicate in German rather than English makes this more challenging.
See also this problem in German :
@aral One wonders how little notice seems to be directed at the extreme irony of this basically being how fascist youth movements have always worked - from the Red Guards of the Chinese Cultural Revolution to, yes, the Hitler Youth...
@aral
L'integralismo portato all'eccesso.
Pericoloso e molto preoccupante soprattutto perché riguarda i giovani. Non finirà bene 😒
@aral That was very well written! Thank you for sharing it.
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