@urlyman It looks to me like BS is the place to "build an audience", to perform as a big account, and to overhear conversations between "important" people. People doing single issue advocacy seem to get more of what they're personally looking for there. And they likely make more of an impact there than they would here.
I'm not looking for an audience, the big account path looks like a bad life to lead, and I'm not important. I do like chatting with people. This place is a good fit for me.
@urlyman can 100% confirm and yes me too 🤗 #lovesfedi
@urlyman Re: Engagement
Welcome Nobodies!
@urlyman And funnily enough, contrary to the experiences many others report, I get far more engagement here than on Bluesky. I somehow have built up 3x the followers here.
I suspect it’s to do with the use here of hashtags here; they’re very egalitarian, anybody can use them, and strangers can find each others’ posts on the specific interest they share.
Whereas on Bluesky people are I think using feeds a lot, and I guess my posts aren’t hitting those.
@Brendanjones could be. It is hard to discern what generates interest. I certainly didn’t expect my reflections above to become my most engaged with post 😯
Nice to know you here Brendan 😀
@urlyman You had half the active fediverse on this thread Mr Nobody, but not of course Her Highness whose post gave rise to it [yet] ;-/
@wavesculptor heh!
Katharine does vital work and I’m happy that she finds BlueSky to be a place for it :)
Democracy, the level playing field of Mastodon, ActivityPub, and Federated Social Media is a wonder, engaging thing. It's night and day the difference.
One feels as though they actually exist, are not being ignored.
Unlike teh algoriddms which erase you.
@urlyman 100% agree! My experience is on Twitter not Bluesky, but I quickly learned that follower counts don't matter much on the fedi. The higher (good faith) engagement is far more satisfying than a number going up, and you don't need to be a big account to attract that.
It's also great to see how even many big accounts here have adjusted to the different vibe, and aren't snooty about talking to those with low follower counts. Prominent figures are willing to be more generous with their time.
@ApostateEnglishman I too have noticed that adjustment :)
@urlyman @kathhayhoe “I was burned by this one place that changed the algorithm overnight, so my impact collapsed and I got thousands of hateful comments… So anyway, I found this new algorithmic place…”
🤦♂️
@urlyman It looks to me like BS is the place to "build an audience", to perform as a big account, and to overhear conversations between "important" people. People doing single issue advocacy seem to get more of what they're personally looking for there. And they likely make more of an impact there than they would here.
I'm not looking for an audience, the big account path looks like a bad life to lead, and I'm not important. I do like chatting with people. This place is a good fit for me.
@urlyman My favorite part of Mastodon is that there are very few incentives for doing whatever it takes to build an audience. You kind of just put your circle together and that's it. Just like we wanted.
@urlyman používám obojí, chce to jen čas...
@urlyman Really? That's interesting, as I'm trying out Mastodon and coming from Bluesky, I interact with people frequently there. Yet, I only have 20-something followers, none of whom know me IRL.
@mycos maybe I was unlucky. What I was saying was no different than my schtick here. The difference in conversational exchange was stark
@urlyman I was in BlueSky for a while too…. but it’s too political, and also quite discriminative of single fathers. If you have NO political opinion there, you’re a nobody, who nobody trusts. You’re considered a “red flag” if you don’t support the left. Other platforms consider you a “red flag “ if you don’t support the right.
I love the Fediverse! It gives the finger to both.
@el_coyote I made hundreds of posts of different kinds. Probably the majority were weighted towards the political. Got next to nothing back either way 🤷♂️
@urlyman I hop between Mastodon and Bluesky. Personally I find value in them both.
There are a lot more big accounts posting on Bluesky, but I enjoy the slower paced more community-based interactions of Mastodon. I also like that Mastodon allows for a lot more nuance with larger character limits even getting into more long form posts (such as the OP which is fairly long and would have been a lengthy thread on bsky) which makes for better discussions.
In my experience Bluesky is better for low-effort short posts and broadcasting from large accounts to a wider audience whereas Mastodon is better for nuanced discussions and has a more level playing field between large and small accounts.
@wesley glad you find value in both places. I wanted to, but just couldn’t.
And the 300 character thing was infuriating
I go back and forth in most places, as a random unknown. I'm not a very social person but I don't have anyone to talk to offline. So I really do need social media, or I'll lose my mind.
BS is absolute chaos, I never understand how to use it.
But here, every time without fail I can jump into a conversation on my first day, and people reply or fav (as read receipts) my words. And I don't have to think most of them are bots, so it makes me feel seen.
@fruitcakesareyum I see you 😊
And fruitcakes are my favourite kind of cake :)
@urlyman I was under the impression that Bluesky was also only chronological feeds?
I think one thing contributing the “connectivity” on Fedi is just that there are so few people here. Bluesky has somewhat hit mainstream awareness; once your platform hits millions of DAU, it’ll be hard to make yourself “stand out” in a sea of hundreds of thousands of daily posts, regardless of there being an algorithm or not.
@moshimotsu @urlyman ” Following” and user-defined Lists have chronological feeds, but Bluesky also has a ”Discover” feed that I glance at every so often.
The ATproto system architecture is pluggable, so anyone can process the firehose and generate an algorithmic feed (or multiple personalized ones) that people can subscribe to; I only follow one.
The way comment propagation works here on Fedi makes the place seem smaller than it is, since you mostly don’t see others’ conversations.
Perhaps scale was the issue or maybe I just got unlucky. I wasn’t expecting loads of interest, just some discussion.
I followed plenty, made hundreds of posts and replies. Whatever the reason, I generated close to no connection. Far less than on Twitter before it
I use open vibe and connect to Bluesky, Nostr, and Mastodon in one app. They just added Tumblr.
It's a good solution
Is it a 
or a 
characteristic?
@daltux good question. Either way, I just want to be where people can be whole, complex interesting people who enjoy other whole people :)
@urlyman If there is an algorithm of any kind, it will be biased in some way. I love Mastodon because it's just chrono
@urlyman in my field, people made the Xodus right after the election and the Bsky handles started popping up after presentations. I personally never understood the love for Twitter, it's inundated w/ bots, and now Bsky just appeals as a Twitter copy in its inevitable prenazification phase.
There's a lot less engagement on Mastodon, and the federation of comments is quite clunky. But it takes me back to the internet before The Algorithm, and I'd rather interact with 5 humans, than argue w bots.
@urlyman names aren't as important as what you toot or boost and how you do it; it's a refreshing attitude of most people here in the fediverse.
I'm Nobody! Who are you?
Are you - Nobody - too?
Then there's a pair of us!
Don't tell! they'd advertise - you know!
--Emily Dickinson
@urlyman Very much so. The human mind seems to gravitate far too much towards those in the spotlight, ignoring lots of great stuff in the shadows.
@urlyman That was my experience starting out on Twittler as well. Mastodon is much more to an Autistics viewpoint of the world. Interaction not worship.
@urlyman yeah I got that vibe too. BlueSky was more diverse, though, but god it sucked. Such a toxic platform. Basically 2019 Twitter.
@DarthAstrius after several months my overwhelming feeling was disappointment: that it was like speaking into a void, and yet so many were enraptured by its ‘stickiness’
@Gillinger very few, for sure
@urlyman I notice that too.
@urlyman BlueSky is a terrible investment choice.
@urlyman That was my experience too. I think the invite only thing was a contributor.
@urlyman bluesky always feels like a live TED talk crowd to me somehow. often quite unquestioning of any old bullshit spouted if presented in a shiny slick packaged article or blog post...
@patrick_h_lauke that’s a neat encapsulation of how it seemed to me
@urlyman @patrick_h_lauke This nicely describes my perception of it too. I always found it to be kind of a "weird vibe" over there. People trying to impress as opposed to people mostly just hanging out.
@dabeaz @urlyman @patrick_h_lauke
I use Mastodon in two different ways. I like to read techie stuff, so I like that a lot of the tech bloggers and magazines post links to their content. Sometimes I boost or comment on these, but I don't expect replies.
On the other hand, I enjoy posting about my own interests and boosting and commenting on other people's creative work or insights, and that's more social. I think I've only actually met one person who has an account here.
"..use Mastodon in two different ways ...
...tech bloggers and magazines post links to their content. ... don't expect replies. [!]
...
posting about my own interests and boosting and commenting on other people's creative work or insights..."
_This is it here_, summarized. I like it that there is just a bit of cross-over too.
Sometimes I'll write stuff as replies to the former, not aimed at them as they prob dont read and less reply, but to others following. Some do tho., if it complements what they're posting.
@wavesculptor @Anne_Delong @dabeaz @patrick_h_lauke
Good points, thank you all. Mastodon certainly seems more interested in whole people. For me, BlueSky, like Twitter before it, seemed to want to fit people into boxes
…Also, if memory serves me right, I have never encountered a conventionally climate sceptic person on here.
There are lots of green growthers but I’ve never had an exchange with someone who doubts basic climate science.
I mention this because I’m surprised that Katharine got the degree of push back on Mastodon that she graphed just over a year ago, but then I’m a man so I don’t have to put up with the many reply guys there are here
@urlyman I reckon if she made the same analysis now, she’d get very different results on Bluesky. Plenty of trolls on there now, some of them I suspect are bots.
@Brendanjones I wish Katharine every success with what she wants out of it.
But at its most basic level, I feel that doing things at humongous scale is unhealthy and algorithmically sorting people is toxic
@urlyman I’ve gotten some climate change deniers here, but compared to the large amount of people I have interacted with, it’s quite few.
@urlyman I am a woman scientist. Reply guys are everywhere. At least on Mastodon, it's easy to add a personal note on their profile the first time they're obnoxious, and then block them the second time. And if they really cross the line, report them to their server and they actually face consequences.
@hydropsyche I wish you didn’t have to face them, but I’m pleased the ecosystem is better at addressing them
@urlyman Why should I reply to this one? Oh, I just did that? Shee...
…Fwiw it really helped that in mid 2023 when I could take no more of what Twitter had become, BlueSky was still closed, and if I was to pursue a Twitter-like experience, Mastodon was the only place to do it (just 7 years after toying with it but not investing in it properly).
Given that Jack Dorsey was behind the genesis of BlueSky I was not very surprised to experience last year what it seems to be. Not for me. After several hundred posts, I deleted my account
…I just don’t want to be in a place that overtly fluffs people’s egos. I like that Mastodon is human. It puts a dampener on my bullshit but does it with kindness and good humour :)
…It’s not just the interactions. It’s also the ambience and the pace. Just healthier
…There was a while in 2024 where I was frustrated that Mastodon didn’t have the breadth of politics that Twitter in its prime had, and thought that that was a bit unhealthy. I did enjoy the jostling with very different views.
So when BlueSky opened up I thought I’d have a look. But just as there are ideas we should embrace (e.g. degrowth) that our current culture *cannot* select, people who like to be among the ‘somebodies’ don’t want to be here. It’s just not for them.
Note that…
@urlyman bsky feels mostly "libertarian/status quo" to me, while masto leans more towards "socialist/anarchic" (with the pinch of salt of "it'll depend on who you follow" etc of course)
…I’m *not* saying that everyone on BlueSky is egotistical, nor am I saying that Katharine is. I’m just saying that when someone is, it’s the kind of place that suits them, and, for the most part, Mastodon just doesn’t
