@strypey @lightweight I actually know nothing about this subject!
My colleague is the one who built and runs the bulletin board. And yes, he is retired after 40+ years experience with UNIX and Linux, so it's quite possibly an old-school platform that he is familiar with.
I'll talk to him.
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@strypey For me the issue lies firstly in that the diverse set of skills & understandings comprising the craft of system administration is largely captive to the corp, mil & gov sectors, partly because it pays very well.
We need to get this expertise out into communities.
Our consultancy deploys infra for NGOs, orgs, at-risk groups, but we are small & there is so much to do, esp at this critical time.
For these reasons I'm teaching it (again).
Current schedule here:
@strypey For me the issue lies firstly in that the diverse set of skills & understandings comprising the craft of system administration is largely captive to the corp, mil & gov sectors, partly because it pays very well.
We need to get this expertise out into communities.
Our consultancy deploys infra for NGOs, orgs, at-risk groups, but we are small & there is so much to do, esp at this critical time.
For these reasons I'm teaching it (again).
Current schedule here:
@JulianOliver
> We need to get this expertise out into communities.
Queue wild applause! Couldn't agree more. I've been taking syllabus notes for a server admin crash course. I'm keen to create an equivalent of Free Code Camp that guides people through acquiring the understanding and skills to wrangle servers.
@strypey Would be great!
I put 100's of hours into my courses, so alas cannot give my live nor static course material for free. I also do 1:1 with students to walk them through any technically & conceptually challenging bits. I find a wholistic approach is needed.
I oft see many just autopilot through vids & guides but with little understanding of fundamentals: infosec, opsec, arch, networking. & so servers have bad sec, are poorly tuned & maintained. These aren't homes fit for communities.
@JulianOliver
> cannot give my live nor static course material for free
I'm imagining it as a collective project, maybe with some funding from well-heeled orgs that support the goal of moving servers back to the ground.
> many just autopilot through vids & guides but with little understanding of fundamentals
That's the main gap I want to address. Introducing people to what they don't know that they don't know, so they can work through practical tutorials with that larger context in place.
@strypey there is always a lot we sysadmins don't know we don't know!
A mantra of the terrain really. Adversaries, including automated, make a game of this.
I myself am studying every day, in some shape or form. The learning never stops, and this is especially the case as regards server hardening/security.
Several of my own students over the years have been senior sysadmins (20+ yrs exp) and said they've grown much through the training.
There's always something!
@strypey there is always a lot we sysadmins don't know we don't know!
A mantra of the terrain really. Adversaries, including automated, make a game of this.
I myself am studying every day, in some shape or form. The learning never stops, and this is especially the case as regards server hardening/security.
Several of my own students over the years have been senior sysadmins (20+ yrs exp) and said they've grown much through the training.
There's always something!
When I was a pro #sysadmin... I would spend 1.5 - 2 days just keeping up with shit... Didn't even have to work hard to convince my boss.
@JulianOliver @strypey indeed, that mirrors my experience. I've also found, to my chagrin, that I often don't know what (it turns out) I *do* know, but which most people don't. Stuff so old hat, I guess, that I take it for granted... Effective knowledge transfer requires patience and strong motivation from all involved.
Hmm. What do folks think about 'ground hosting' as a way of describing community-hosting by contrasting it with 'cloud hosting'.
Getting our online services out of the clouds, and back on the ground, under the control of the communities using them.
@strypey Would be great!
I put 100's of hours into my courses, so alas cannot give my live nor static course material for free. I also do 1:1 with students to walk them through any technically & conceptually challenging bits. I find a wholistic approach is needed.
I oft see is many just autopilot through vids & guides but with little understanding of fundamentals: infosec, opsec, arch, networking. & so servers have bad sec, are poorly tuned & maintained. These aren't homes fit for communities
@strypey I also feel the same way about money and finance. I have been harping on Bernard Lietaer's The Future of Money since it first came out 25 years ago. Clearly humanity needs to move away from money as debt to solve all the social and environmental crises we have. And yet, I feel it is just impossible to get anyone to understand it or even pay attention, let alone to get 8 billion people to adopt it.
@bamfic
> Clearly humanity needs to move away from money as debt to solve all the social and environmental crises we have
I feel ya. I'm constantly arguing political economy here from a vaguely MMT-ish angle. There are all sorts of economic technologies out there, from community network LETS and timebanks to Free Code tools like GNU Taler. But you're right that as with comms and energy, economic transition comes with collection action problems.
Are you familiar with #ValueFlows?
@strypey Also inertia. If you have seen what @cwebber has been working on with Spritely and OCAPs, it's clearly what we need to reinvent security and privacy from the ground up in all of computing, to build consent into systems as a first-class fundamental. And yet... the amount of time it would cost to retool everything, or even to get people's brains fully wrapped around it, is so daunting it seems impossible.
@bamfic
> If you have seen what @cwebber has been working on with Spritely and OCAPs
The finer details are above my paygrade, but I've read some of the 'for dummies' intro materials, enough to see the potential.
> the amount of time it would cost to retool everything, or even to get people's brains fully wrapped around it, is so daunting it seems impossible
It's a big project. But as Lao Tzu reminded us in Tao Te Ching, the longest journey begins with a single step. Then another ...
@strypey
Putting up not just with the status quo, but with whatever new "improved" craptacular shit the techbros throw at us. The people running most tech companies aren't interested in using tech to improve lives. They just want to suck every possible fraction of a cent out of every interaction.
Whenever a new company introduces a tech product that's actually good, a big company buys them, and the enshittification begins.
@strypey Also not feeling confident to make the change e.g. from microsoft to Linux. I have often read that you need someone who knows how Linux works to assist with making the change.
@Iveyline @strypey Forgive me for butting in, but it all depends on what your needs are, as to whether Linux will work for you, and how hard it is. If your computing needs are simple home office sort of things, it will probably work well. If you have more specialised needs, you need to do some research before making the change.
For example, I have no IT training, but have switched fully to Linux and have set up my own personal cloud server. The latter with Claude AI holding my hand every step of the way!
There are versions of Linux now that make converting a PC to Linux very simple now, and unless you have special requirements, you can do it without diving into the terminal at all.
You can also try Linux without making any permanent changes to your computer at all AND there is the dual boot option, where you can keep your Windows system and install Linux alongside it.
Happy to talk to you about my experience if you like, but I have already warned you I am not an expert!
@98Percent
> I have no IT training, but have switched fully to Linux and have set up my own personal cloud server. The latter with Claude AI holding my hand every step of the way!
Great stuff! Have you written about the transition? A HowTo from a newbie POV would potentially be really helpful to others who want to make the switch but feel the lack of confidence @Iveyline talked about.
@98Percent
BTW @lightweight mentioned you're part of a group in Motueka who support each other in doing these IT transitiona. I pop through there from time to time. Do you have meetings I could attend next time I'm there, or anything like that?
@strypey @lightweight Currently the nearest thing to a face-to-face group is the Repair Cafe. The majority of my
"clients" are of a certain age, so I've set up a Facebook group, Linux Learners Tasman, which you would be welcome to join if you have a FB account.
I am also fortunate enough to have had a person with vast knowledge of UNIX and Linux systems make contact with me. He has set up a user group with a help forum. It's currently not in active use, but you would be welcome to join it at www.island42.net/tlg/
My plan this year is to get a user group going, with monthly meetings.
Whenever I convert a person's computer to Linux, I always provide contact details for support, but Linux has come so far that I get few calls for help.
@98Percent
> He has set up a user group with a help forum. It's currently not in active use
It's up to @lightweight but if your forum is using AP-enabled forum software like Discourse or NodeBB, maybe we could federate it with;
https://community.iridescent.nz/
So your local forum would be appear as a category there, and some of us could share our experience when that helps. Our sporadic forum discussions could be a category on your forum, for anyone who's interested in what we talk about.
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@Iveyline
> Also not feeling confident to make the change
That's a big one. Back in the 90s we had local LUGs to help people make the shift, and facilitate peer support. Maybe we need more local tech empowerment groups? The Right to Repair movement with its Repair Cafes is a good model, and software freedom people can definitely get involved in those and support people to replace proprietary apps and OS.
@strypey Good comment
@strypey @Iveyline there're people like @JulianOliver already actively helping people move from proprietary tech (MS Windows/Apple) to open (Linux) in places like Wellington. I'm planning to do similar in Ōtautahi in the next month or two. Are you in either of those places? There're lots of generous & knowledgeable folks keen to help people make that transition, but of course, there's no marketing as there's no $ in the system. You have to seek it out.
@lightweight @strypey @JulianOliver Thanks Dave. I live in Mangonui in the Far North so its a long way to the big cities
@Iveyline you'd be welcome to join our monthly #opensource/#libre online meetings (question & answer + the odd presentation) - every 2nd Tues of the month at 20:00 at https://meeting.iridescent.nz (uses our own BigBlueButton instance). Last month, we had Pete - @98Percent - from Motueka join us, where he told us there's a burgeoning community of folks (many seniors) getting into freeing themsevles from the shackles of #BigTech... maybe you're not alone in your area? @strypey @JulianOliver
@lightweight
> there're people like @JulianOliver already actively helping people move from proprietary tech (MS Windows/Apple) to open (Linux) in places like Wellington. I'm planning to do similar in Ōtautahi
Good stuff.
> Are you in either of those places
Nope, I'm still in HamilTron for now, but planning to relocate soon. Might try to set up a repair cafe in the place I'm moving to, and shill GNU/Linux conversions as part of that.
@jonathanharker
> we need food banks, but for tech
Intriguing. So ... charities hosting online services for low income people using Free Code software and donated funds to pay for hosting? Or charities fundraising to set up community access datacentres, akin to community access radio?
@jonathanharker
> Why don't we have both?
Being an anarchist and mutualist I'm naturally suspicious of charity models and prefer mutual aid collectives (eg RiseUp, Disroot), or maybe co-ops/ social enterprises. But if charities started pooling resources to do the things I described, I wouldn't hate that.
@strypey @jonathanharker @Iveyline the bones of that sort of thing are already in place, thanks to Prodigi.nz's sponsored infrastructure...
@strypey There's certainly learned helplessness, but also burnout and massive levels of overwhelmed. I think a big factor is how our culture has been broken by the dogma of individualism. It's so hard to get most people to cooperate on things. I've tried to start a bunch of things, I've set up infrastructure etc and got the ball rolling. And while many people agree it is a great idea that someone should totally do, very few join in because they always want everything to be reshaped in exactly the image they have instead of cooperating.
But the biggest factor is a moral failing. Most people don't have a drive to do things because they are morally better i.e. more equitable, sustainable, more fair. Most will choose the expedient thing every single time. Capitalism has poisoned our society. The only good is mammon.
@Ooze
> they always want everything to be reshaped in exactly the image they have instead of cooperating
I may be a bit guilty of that. I set very exacting ethical standards for anything I work on, even more so if it's unpaid.
> Most will choose the expedient thing every single time. Capitalism has poisoned our society. The only good is mammon
Or Moloch?
https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/
@strypey I am likewise unrelenting on moral standing. However in that paragraph I was thinking about implementation rather than morality.
