Discussion
Loading...

Post

Log in
  • About
  • Code of conduct
  • Privacy
  • Users
  • Instances
  • About Bonfire
Scott Jenson
Scott Jenson
@scottjenson@social.coop  ·  activity timestamp 15 hours ago

RE: https://mastodon.online/@mastodonmigration/115937101960287352

Exactly. Pointing out that #Bluesky isn't *practically* decentralized yet is not a critique, it's a statement of the work they need to do. (and I wish them luck!)

Mastodon has its own demons to slay. No one is perfect here! We're just talking about how things should improve. I so don't want us to form a circular firing squad. We can all win.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this post
  • Block
Victoria 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈 she/her
Victoria 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈 she/her
@tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloud replied  ·  activity timestamp 10 hours ago

@scottjenson realistically speaking i doubt we'll see the ATmosphere (cool name btw) be decentralised. The way their relays work is making sure only the rich can manage it.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Scott Jenson
Scott Jenson
@scottjenson@social.coop replied  ·  activity timestamp 4 hours ago

@tragivictoria that is the one critique I hear over and over: relays are the decentralized weak point of #ATProto.

People love to complain about how odd #ActivityPub data sync is (which is true!) but I'd argue it's "good enough" and has the advantage of working on $5/month servers

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Open Risk
Open Risk
@openrisk@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 14 hours ago

@scottjenson in the end of the day all that matters is figuring out healthy "social media", online discourses where we share valuable information, enhance emotional states, share the wonder and pain of life. Devising digital environments that make us all better humans, more wholesome, less ugly societies, at times of great collective peril 🖖

If technically the way to achieve that is via COBOL running on a single mainframe monolith or billions of chatty Raspberry Pi's, its irrelevant really 🤦

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Boris Mann
Boris Mann
@boris@cosocial.ca replied  ·  activity timestamp 15 hours ago

@scottjenson once again going to ask that you say #ATProto and not Bluesky.

We’re trying. Like many distributed open source systems, this is bottoms up community work. Pointing at Bluesky-the-company erases our work.

It’s not Bluesky’s job, it’s the ecosystems job.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Dmian 🇪🇺
Dmian 🇪🇺
@dmian@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 14 hours ago

@boris @scottjenson There’s been a great effort of talking about the Fediverse, and not just Mastodon.
https://jointhefediverse.net/ (among others)
But if we’re talking about Mastodon, there’s been an effort to offer different instances:
https://joinmastodon.org/ (directly from Mastodon)
You search “Join Fediverse” or “Join Mastodon”, and you get offered a choice.
What do you get when you search “Join Bluesky”? Or “Join ATmosphere”? (Didn’t know that was even a thing)

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Boris Mann
Boris Mann
@boris@cosocial.ca replied  ·  activity timestamp 14 hours ago

@dmian @scottjenson there’s a just kicking off UX research project (that Scott just became aware of) that is doing work on the best messaging for this.

Bluesky is one product but also a microblog data type (like ActivityPub Notes type that Mastodon and others implement).

You can choose your account host completely separate even from your app with ATProto, so it’s different.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Boris Mann
Boris Mann
@boris@cosocial.ca replied  ·  activity timestamp 14 hours ago

@dmian @scottjenson here’s a (Brazilian) list of PDS account hosts as an example

https://blog.vicwalker.dev.br/3lz4g6zxeic2p

And fun fact this is a long form blog data type running on the Leaflet app, whose data lives in this user’s account.

I also don’t expect a centralized “join” site because that’s not how ATProto works. Tricky to explain!

Lista: PDS independente - Cantinho da TI

Uma lista de PDSes independentes do Bluesky PBC
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Dmian 🇪🇺
Dmian 🇪🇺
@dmian@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 14 hours ago

@boris @scottjenson I’m also on Bluesky, I’ve been waiting to see other instances interacting with it or even, a bridge to ActivityPub (heck! Even Threads was trying!) I’m still waiting. If you put all your efforts on selling just one place, if you don’t put your weight into promoting the community (the protocol is irrelevant to the user, most Fediverse users don’t know about ActivityPub), you have no interest in federating, imho.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Boris Mann
Boris Mann
@boris@cosocial.ca replied  ·  activity timestamp 14 hours ago

@dmian @scottjenson ATProto doesn’t have “instances” and this is part of the disconnect with fedi users looking for these full stack installs as they call them.

Here’s my presentation from #Fedicon where I walk through a dozen or so different apps / data types https://bmannconsulting.com/notes/beyond-microblogging-atproto/

Some re-use Bluesky’s microblog type, many others have built their own.

It’s not better, it’s just _different_ with different trade offs.

Boris Mann's Homepage

Beyond Microblogging: AT Protocol for Building Unique Social Apps

I gave this presentation at [[Fedicon]] 2025 in Vancouver.My goal was not to do a protocol deep dive, but rather showcase all of the beyond microblogging app...
  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Dmian 🇪🇺
Dmian 🇪🇺
@dmian@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 14 hours ago

@boris @scottjenson Yes, sorry for using “instances”. But trust me, I want federated services to flourish, regardless of protocol.
To be honest, I’m glad the “ATmosphere” name’s been coined. People need to talk about that, the way others talk about the Fediverse, or the Web, and not ATProto, ActivityPub, or HTTP. The protocols are for developers. The rest needs communities, identities, and to know of the services that provide the means to connect. Imho, of course.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Boris Mann
Boris Mann
@boris@cosocial.ca replied  ·  activity timestamp 14 hours ago

@dmian @scottjenson yep, I agree! Hence this UX research. And why erasing the community I’m helping build is sad.

Come join us at #ATmosphereConf this March in Vancouver https://news.atmosphereconf.org

DM me if you want more info.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Scott Jenson
Scott Jenson
@scottjenson@social.coop replied  ·  activity timestamp 14 hours ago

@boris totally fair and my apologies. I did say BOTH product names and not their protocols so I'm an equal opportunity oversimplifier.

But you are correct and I'll do better.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Boris Mann
Boris Mann
@boris@cosocial.ca replied  ·  activity timestamp 14 hours ago

@scottjenson appreciate you Scott.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Scott Jenson
Scott Jenson
@scottjenson@social.coop replied  ·  activity timestamp 14 hours ago

@boris totally fair and my apologies. I did say BOTH product names and not their protocols so I'm an equal opportunity oversimplifier.

But you are correct and I'll do better.

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block
Rob Ricci
Rob Ricci
@ricci@discuss.systems replied  ·  activity timestamp 15 hours ago

@scottjenson yep! I built the site to - I hope - watch the atmosphere decentralize in practice!

  • Copy link
  • Flag this comment
  • Block

bonfire.cafe

A space for Bonfire maintainers and contributors to communicate

bonfire.cafe: About · Code of conduct · Privacy · Users · Instances
Bonfire social · 1.0.1 no JS en
Automatic federation enabled
Log in
  • Explore
  • About
  • Members
  • Code of Conduct