@jesterchen @duke_of_germany ah, I thought 🤷 was well understood to mean "I don't know/care, I just want to see the results". It's pretty commonly used, but clearly not commonly enough. Sorry!
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@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante I said "Separated out", but I meant "if at all, into extensions that I won't be installing".
@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante what do you consider AI? Features like translation are something completely different from something that does bad summaries of web pages.
@jmcs @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @tante do please read the rest of the thread before posting
@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante
I feel I can’t answer this because my instinct is 3, but I have no idea whether that is organisationally realistic.
People want all sorts of outcomes from things they put no work into and take for granted
@urlyman @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @tante well we know it isn't, they've already declared they're going AI no matter what and they're hiring lots of new AI guys
the purpose of this is so they can't lie later about what the users *actually* want
@davidgerard ok fair. Thanks. I’ve voted for 3
@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante
We were longtime users if Firefox.
AI is crap.
Nobody wants AI.
All of us are Librewolf users now.
@Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante fwiw, Librewolf includes the same AI translation engine as Firefox.
@firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante
Firefoxwebdevs, would you please stop muddying the waters by conflating machine translation with generative AI? You know they're not the same, you pointed it out in your poll.
@cryptica @firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante I'm happy you felt it was clear from the text of the poll, yet look at the results
@jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante
The poll you made specifically to muddy the water?
@cryptica @firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante you said I clearly made the case for them being different, and yet respondents disagreed.
Not sure how I could have made the point clearly, yet been misleading.
@jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante
🤷
By making a flawed poll based on falsely tying all machine learning to GenAI/LLMs.
Do you seriously think this poll shows that only 1% want translation features? Of course not, you know better.
@cryptica @firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante see this, and the following post in the thread https://mastodon.social/@firefoxwebdevs/115859958902197087
@jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante
Thank you for pushing for, and getting, more controls for the end user.
I know you are not directly involved in that part of the organization.
Please stop conflating all machine learning with generative AI/LLMs.
@cryptica @firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante I agree they're different. I feel I laid out the difference clearly in the poll, and from your messages, it seems like you agree.
And yet, the vast majority considers that to be the type of thing that should be covered by the kill switch.
So, if the kill switch didn't include translation, folks would have accused us of cheating/dishonesty. I'm glad we avoided that.
@jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante
I still think the poll results are skewed based on the construction of the response options tying translation features that people do want to the genAI features that no one wants.
Hence why I'm asked for you (and whoever was responsible for the mockup in the first place) to stop tying them together.
@cryptica @firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante I really agree with you in terms of translation, but look at some of the replies to the poll posts. I think if Mozilla tried to say "no, this isn't the type of AI you hate, it's different", the response would be furious.
@cryptica @firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @tante Jake is the sort of person who says "wellll what does opt-in really *mean* before offering you a literal opt-out and claiming it's an opt-in
@firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante
The translation engine wouldn't even be an issue if it wasn't for your attempt to tie it into the kill switch for so-called "AI" software that shouldn't be necessary because the Eliza chatbot software has negative value.
It's a distraction from the real issue, and you know it's a distraction from the real issue.
@firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante at first I thought lumping the translation models with the rest of genAI shit in your poll was just incompetence from execs/board members without enough knowledge on this matter. Now I think it's intentional, and pathetic.
I mean, I have never seen anyone complaining about it (why would anyone? it's a non commercial AND ACTUALLY USEFUL thing, runing locally without sharing anything outside, made in collaboration with public unis, and from what I've seen all the training data is public domain, opensource or similar, that's how these things should be done).
But now I remember how aibros insist in lumping LLMs with classic neural networks etc as if everything was the same to give credibility to LLMs. So now people opposing their shitty LLM integration are opposing translations too of course and that shows how unreasonable they are.
@firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante when did you start calling the translation engine “AI”?
I don’t think I’ve seen it referred to that way until after people started objecting to more recent things more consistently referred to as “AI”
@ShadSterling @firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @tante around the same time crypto bros started calling git a "blockchain", or at least for the same sort of reasons
@firefoxwebdevs @Compassionatecrab @duke_of_germany @davidgerard @tante fwiw people who used Firefox for decades are telling you they won’t use it anymore and you’re fwiw-ing them as if you think they’re just too stupid to make their own decisions about what they do and don’t support rather than taking their VALID CONCERNS and treating them with respect.
FWIW I also am no longer using Firefox and have used it for decades. When people tell you what they want and you tell them to eat shit they’re not going to want to come back. This is customer service 101 but no one seems to know how to make products worthwhile anymore. You are “innovating” to get more cash flow but not worrying about the stability of the customers you have. You guys will regret that very quickly - just like Target and Spotify and allllll these other companies that do this same exact thing.
Cheers. No one wants Ai and no one cares about it.
