@cstross
I've got paper maps for everywhere and here I'm likely to need to drive in an emergency, but this is a good reminder to drive with them occasionally

@cstross I've been re-learning how to navigate with the other kind of compass.

@cstross I've not driven stick shift since I bought my current car which, being electric, has only a selector knob for Forward, Reverse, Neutral and Park. But before that I was driving up to 50k miles a year, and it wouldn't surprise me if I have covered half a million miles in a manual

@cstross I can drive a stick-shift, without cruise control, good nav (aka the ability to hook my smartphone up to the car), or rear/all-around camera views.

I would just consider the absence of all of these very frustrating and would not willingly do so anymore.

@cstross Explains why I keep nearly getting hit by Tesla drivers, at least.

@cstross I learned on a manual and used maps, too. I drove alone a lot and, on long trips, I got used to pulling into a parking lot and making mental plans for where I was going to be going next to get to where I wanted.

One time I was on a major road and didn’t see what I was expecting to see and didn’t have anywhere to pull over, so I was trying to check the map while driving and ended up driving onto a closed military base without realizing it. I later found out the other cars had stickers so didn’t have to stop. I was just going with the flow, so maybe they missed me somehow. I was fortunate that I wasn’t shot or arrested, but this was before 9/11 and they didn’t do anything.

These days I do use electronic navigation and probably couldn’t get by if it went out for the simple fact that I haven’t owned a map in a decade or more.

@cstross almost the same (bought a hybrid recently), but I don't miss the days of paper maps one bit. I can't read one and drive safely, or memorise the entirety of a long route. Requests for route info. from a front seat passenger would likely be met with "how am I supposed to know that?"
At least I could mostly use the map effectively if I was the passenger (perhaps a benefit of earlier CCF exercises).

@cstross I got out of shift-stick driving when our 14 year old Seat died in 2011 and living in London we felt we didn't need to own a car any more. Moving to semi-rural Devon 10 years ago we felt we needed to get a small car again so bought one that was pretty advanced for its time: so it was automatic, it had cruise control, Android Auto GPS, belt-up reminders, but it still has a proper hand-brake and all the controls were real switches and in the place we were accustomed to, being VW group.
We went automatic as I had got used to that from a few road trips, including the time when we had lost the Seat, both in Europe and in the USA, where shift-stick is uncommon.
Driving foreign hire cars, unless you choose them carefully, can be a pain as even back them they used to have controls differently placed (as well as being LHD) and we never got one that had a handbook to look up where the controls were.

I'm keen on the (basic) cruise control as I can just reset or nudge it with my finger and it avoid me having to watch the speed once it's set. Also you don't need to keep your right foot on the accelerator. It's very useful driving in 20 mph zones and I use the 'nudge' when having to drive behind someone who idea of 60 mph is slightly different from mine. But you do need to know when to override it and revert to manual.
Andt yes we do carry a printed road atlas and downloaded maps for the GPS.

@cstross Stick or auto isn't much of an issue, you get used to it. Relying on some automatic system in very bad weather and not being able to be in control yourself in those conditions is the danger here, I think.

Newfangled stuff I like: rear-view cameras, satnavs, and distance cruise control (for when the traffic is so dense I decide "go with the flow" is less stress than trying to save a minute or two).

@cstross I’m 40, but I also can’t relate to any of this. I learned on a stick shift and even though I’ve been driving automatic for the past decade, I can still drive stick shift no problem.

I need gps only in places I’m not familiar with, and looking at a paper map, a map on a phone or tablet even if the gps isn’t working, AND asking people for directions are still available.

I think there’s a bit of learned helplessness as a cultural thing going on here.

@cstross When my SO and I moved from Sweden to England at the turn of the millennium, we brought our old manual car over, on the principle that if we were familiar with the controls we'd only have to learn to drive on the left side (and roundabouts!) to start with.

When we replaced it with one that had the driver on the right side, we got an automatic, as my SO is too right-handed to shift gears with her left hand. After that we only had automatics in England.

Now that we've moved back to Sweden, we've bought a manual car again. Took a bit of practice but we've both got the muscle memory back now.

I'm sure those who've automated as much as possible could learn to drive without those features again. What scares me is that they don't think they can.

@cstross During a recent conversation I was quite surprised to find how many people in the group considered cruise control and automated distance-keeping to be essential aspects of driving. Not necessarily a bad or a good thing, just... deeply alien to me. I've always driven manual cars where the torque applied by the engine directly correlates with how far you're holding the accelerator down, and nothing more. I can't help but feel that some have a completely different driving experience.

@cstross we love paper maps, as it allowed is to have a permanent record of the trips we make. We improve the map everytime we use it

@cstross looks like drivers are learning the lessons we learnt from air France flight 447, and the risks of too much automation.

I've driven (but not owned) a few electric cars, including a model 3, on the basis of it allowing me to criticise them from a position of experience. Having had to stop the model 3 from trying to drive into a tree at one point. I do not think the technology is even close to fit for purpose on European roads.

@cstross I use a car sharing system with lots of different makes and it's like being dropped in front of a computer with a drastically different OS every time. Touch screen interfaces from hell, window wipers hidden in the third sub-menu, navigation systems tracking your every move and phoning home to whomever...

@cstross I remember the camping trips up to Glenelg etc in the seventies with our parents, the chunky AA map book and OS maps for hiking. Happy days.

Apart from the seventies cars that would break down if you looked at them funny.

@cstross I learned on a manual in the 1980s, but I've been driving an automatic for about 6-7 years, and I've pretty much lost all the muscle memory for a manual.

However, the car's satnav has been unreliable (it's old, and the aerial was mis-placed when they retrofitted it), so I still carry a paper map and make hand-written instructions in large print for long journeys.

@cstross I drove a manual shift for at least 30 years - HOWEVER, having to redo my license on the wrong side of the road meant that I was constantly in danger of opening the car door instead of shifting gears! So now I'm only licensed for an automatic.