@tante @anildash "the idea of Mozilla.. " nah, Firefox was supposed to be a better browser than IE and chrome. Faster and less resource hungry. When it stopped working well and everything was dependent on chrome, people stopped using ff. Adding a philosophical layer to it, why we need Mozilla etc. doesn't help or change that. 99% of people don't care what Mozilla does or does not stand for. They want a working browser.

@tante @anildash I don't know that anyone's done any favors by being encouraged to use AI to do shit like track their hours because their boss is ripping them off.

Because that's the kind of shit people do with it. That's the GOOD kind of shit anyway. The other is getting talked into suicide.

And why it need to be integrated? Huh? What's that providing? I really need an AI to help me navigate the fucking browser interface? Really?

**sniff** -- smells like the countryside.

@tante @anildash : " people are so used to using AI in their everyday lives"

I seriously consider that those are the niche people.

Lot of everyday-people use AI only because it pops up everywhere and only to discuss their love affairs with ChatGPT.

People tells me that they don’t use AI personally but "it will be big". Then ask me how to disable then annoying AI in Whatsapp.

Studies demonstrated that "contains AI" is actually a turn-off for a majority of consumers.

@tante @anildash “AI” is the antithesis of the open web.

@tante @anildash Why should it be *anyone's* job to make it easier to access morally irresponsible tech, let alone a company that's supposed to be making the world better?

@tante @anildash At one time, we at least had some CHOICE in most things. But the melding of everything web into a homoganeous goop because "everyone wants/uses it" has doomed choice for most of us. Follow the leader is a kids game, not a way of life.

@tante @anildash It's sad, because I've been a Firefox user and advocate for decades- even at times when there were usability problems with the software or the foundation was making dubious decisions- but coddling this AI nonsense is just a step too far. It's clear at this point that the MBA brainrot has fully taken root in Mozilla. I'll be jumping ship.

@tante @anildash

Nah, people hate AI generally. The push to infect every app with AI is due to pressure from those who've over-invested in the bubble and are desperate to find some kind of use case for their ocean drinking wrong-answer machine.

@tante @anildash
"Mozilla to just stop with the AI development and focus on a more traditional browser is small"

IRRELEVANT.
LLMs are a lie, and Mozilla isn't even doing a good core Firefox and Thunderbird. Wrecking it for years.
Do a good browser that follows OS theme / GUI and does nothing else. Print doesn't work properly.
Too much is on by default and hidden in about:config,

If people want the planet destroying, content stealing, misleading AI there are no shortage of con artists.

@tante @anildash To be blunt: the main reason the number of people who have any opinion on the matter is small would be because the firefox user base is tiny to begin with.

Anyone who cared is likely to have left the ship, especially with the captain shoving them to the lifeboats.

@tante @anildash it’s like a car maker deciding to make “the electric truck of the future” when most people just want a normal-looking truck. Or making a bipedal humanoid robot because they think everyone wants one. Chasing these trends might get them a few new customers, but they’ve got a lot more existing customers who bought cars years ago and might look at buying a new one if they just made new models of their existing lines (or just a normal-looking truck).

@tante @anildash Ah the silent majority. I must have missed this survey of what #firefox users actually want? AFAICT they seem dead set against it, can't remember a single 'I am a firefox user and love the new AI stuff' toot. The number of firefox users has dwindled massively over the past few years, almost negligible now. I used to use firefox because they were very user focused, that and the alternative was IE lol. 🦊

@tante @anildash "He argues that the number of people who want Mozilla to just stop with the AI development and focus on a more traditional browser is small (probably true)"

So are the number of people who currently choose Firefox as their browser. I suspect that the overlap is quite large.

Given the insidious spread of LLMs into just about everything else, making available a browser that guarantees to offer a LLM free experience - something that doesn't then hog their development resources when there are more important things to do and
remembering that having an embedded cloud LLM is a privacy nightmare - seems like a better project for Mozilla to pursue.

@tante @anildash
Here's another project to add to the list for anyone who cares about the Fediverse.

Almost a year ago, Mozilla shut down its Mastodon instance: https://techcrunch.com/2024/09/17/mozilla-exits-the-fediverse-and-will-shutter-its-mastodon-server-in-december/

Mozilla /could/ have chosen to redirect its AI resources towards Fediverse projects.

That could have come in the form of development support for Fedi projects.

Just imagine what a project like Friendica or GtS or Lemmy could accomplish with even one or two full-time paid staff funded by Mozilla.

Mozilla /could/ have built user friendly client apps for Fediverse platforms.

Mozilla /could/ have built Fediverse-integrated features (bookmark sharing?) or plugins for Firefox.

Mozilla /could/ have offered managed Fediverse server hosting.

It chose not to.

@tante Yes, I share that impression. Originally Mozilla was "let's work against the Torment Nexus", now it's more like "the Torment Nexus is being built with or without us, let's contribute to make it as humane as possible". Or something. I don't know. All I know is I've turned my back on them as soon as they turned their back on what makes sense and what is right, and I can't be bothered to hope they'll somehow regain integrity. Usually it's a one-way street.

@tante

One problem is that if everyone is continuing like this with AI everywhere, in the future we do not need (or have) browsers at all.

Then a "website" is just a service providing structured data for AI crawlers. Users are chatting with AI Apps to shop, get news or do stuff (many already replaced google and not visiting websites with the results anymore). In the background Agents are doing everything.

I visited an MS event early this year and this was the vision of the MS guy talking. I do not like it.

@anildash

Basically: Sure people do a thing and like it but maybe it's not Mozilla's job to make that kind of thing even easier.

(Like with Facebook etc they built containers to isolate those browsing experiences: This was a move of "we have to protect users but we also show them that what they are doing is not without significant dangers and harms". The move when it comes to "AI" looks structurally massively different.)