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why (the current) #openaccess deals are not a good idea
1. journals I publish in are often excluded from the deals (and I still pay ACP)
2. the deals are driving me towards publishing in a pre-paid but lower quality journal
3. they are often advertized as "no cost", but I still pay for them, just via our library
4. the sustain the for profit publishers at the expensive of (better) alternatives
@jesper I think we very quickly need to rethink that whole emission credits idea. In the end, it's always the customer (or tax payer) that pays
@egonw Re #2, what do you mean by "lower quality"?
@sennoma oh, there are so many ways how journals show they can be of lower quality than the alternative... where do I start...
@egonw Too many people use impact factor as a proxy for quality -- I know you don't, but I'm curious as to what factors do influence you?
Lemme think... ignoring costs:
MUST be indexed in PubMed
average time to reject/accept
webpage functionality
allows preprint/postprint archiving
stable DOI
allows signed reviews
There must be more, but that's off the top of my head.
@sennoma open science standards:
- do they actively support open data (e.g. with peer review)
- do they actively support open standards (e.g. ISO dates, HGNC symbols, InChI, compact IDs)
- do they actively support open source (e.g. with peer review; expect archived released)
5. The current model keeps predatory journals in business.
@rupdecat yes, not fully disagreeing, but I think it is researchers keeping predatory journals in business? I mean, they don't have to submit there, or cite there (in a positive way).
I wonder if predatory journals get significant more negative than positive citations... more CiTO work to do :)
@egonw true.
Now, in a world with 馃挴 percent diamond journals, run by our various professional societies, the pressure would be on:
- from peers
- and economically too.
It is an individual choice. Yet not everyone is keeping up with developments like you.馃槈 When my collaborator chose MDPI, thinking that would still be ok, I didn't check the journal either. It wasn't my subject and you may call it utterly naive or worse. It would be true (and ignore the fact that I was in no position to object, either. Academia sometimes is a viciously convoluted environment.)
Thing with action towards the climate crisis is, that they are individual choices too. And we know that without our governments setting boundaries, we, as individuals, have only a little lever for change.
Not quite a good analogy, yet my point is that without adjusted peer pressure and economic pressure, individuals will all too frequently fall for the promises of predatory publishers.
@rupdecat and it would be so easy to take more control.
We can:
1. start adding editor information to #Wikidata (and #Wikipedia where missing)
2. adopt ranked voting to rank scientific journals
3. use platforms like PubPeer regularly (both positive and negative)
4. demand minimal standards from commercial publishers
5. ask something in return for free peer reviewing
@rupdecat Dutch researchers should really:
put all pre 2025 journal articles in their university repository, going back to the very first article they ever published
Particularly looking at retired professors here, who have a chance to strengthen their legacy
But it would help a lot if Dutch universities take the next step regarding a few hundred years of Dutch science
I mean, why is not all literature by past excelling scholars not freely (as in freedom/free speech) online?
This all boils down to the question of why our (academic) societies change (so slowly)? Doesn't it?
During the OS retreat, we discussed this and wrote white papers. Without rigour though. More a high level lament.
I am still glad that you brought the Dutch case forward. The Dutch OS implementation, for all the backlashes we have seen recently, is a shining example of good practices being put in place. Yet, others are not that far and feel the resistance against good scientific practice sometimes overwhelming. And still, even Dutch colleagues occasionally report emotions ranging from reluctance to refusal.
We need more allies.
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