@firefoxwebdevs @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @davidgerard @zzt you could save us all a lot of time by stating in the original post a list of *very* common responses to Firefox AI initiatives which are "never going to be actioned"
JESUS CHRIST
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@fasterandworse @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @davidgerard @zzt Did you seriously believe that unshipping a largely well-regarded feature like translations was on the table for Firefox 148?
@firefoxwebdevs @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @davidgerard @zzt the missing option which you are responding to is "Missing option, if shouldn't be in the browser code in the first place. It should be an add-on that the user has to explicitly install"
I've been following your responses because (correct me if I'm wrong) you have not addressed any of the "make them all add-ons" responses.
It has been repeated ad nauseam with good reason considering the opt-in/consent issue with AI features
@fasterandworse @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @davidgerard @zzt
Given the poll was about translations, the option you wanted would amount to unshipping a largely well-regarded feature.
Again, did you seriously and honestly believe that was on the table for Firefox 148?
@firefoxwebdevs@mastodon.social @fasterandworse@hci.social @heptapodEnthusiast@mathstodon.xyz @nuintari@mastodon.bsd.cafe @davidgerard@circumstances.run @zzt@mas.to you have unshipped plenty of well-regarded Firefox features and associated products. I still miss Lockwise, despite the fact that every bug i filed with it (some of which prevented me from using it outright, on several devices) was marked not-planned.
so, yes, i think it's reasonable to expect Firefox to un-ship features like this.
so, yes, i think it's reasonable to expect Firefox to un-ship features like this.
@linear @davidgerard @fasterandworse @zzt @nuintari @heptapodEnthusiast @firefoxwebdevs the graveyard of abandoned/"unshipped" Mozilla/Firefox products is nearly as big as Google's. So the "we can't unship things"-take is really revisionist, bordering on unhinged.
@gedankenstuecke @linear @fasterandworse @zzt @nuintari @heptapodEnthusiast @firefoxwebdevs i get the impression everyone else in this thread knows much more about firefox's history than Jake
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@gedankenstuecke @linear @fasterandworse @zzt @nuintari @heptapodEnthusiast @firefoxwebdevs
in any case, the AI in Firefox is clearly immutable. Check the first two positions on the jobs page:
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/careers/listings/?team=Firefox
* Director of Product Management, Generative AI
* Staff UX Designer, AI Investment
they're also introducing "your new companion" (it's Copilot but Firefox):
https://discourse.mozilla.org/t/introducing-kit-your-new-companion-through-the-web/146463
the fix is in and this thread exists to try to get people to object less to this very stupid idea that the users don't want.
jake seems literally not to understand the objections (c.f. upton sinclair). so he keeps trying new prompts to see if UpsetUsersGPT gives a different answer. he must be prompting us wrong, you see.
@firefoxwebdevs@mastodon.social @fasterandworse@hci.social @heptapodEnthusiast@mathstodon.xyz @nuintari@mastodon.bsd.cafe @davidgerard@circumstances.run @zzt@mas.to frankly, i'm not convinced that removal in less than 5 years isn't already the fate of all of these features, and i suspect this whole thing will turn out to have been a massive waste of money and development effort.
@firefoxwebdevs@mastodon.social @fasterandworse@hci.social @heptapodEnthusiast@mathstodon.xyz @nuintari@mastodon.bsd.cafe @davidgerard@circumstances.run @zzt@mas.to at the end of the day, Mozilla's product is a web browser, and continually, Mozilla seems to be interested in doing anything other than making that core product - the web browser - actually good. instead, you continually focus on shiny new things that get thrown out later.
do you know just how many people i could convince to switch away from Chrome and friends if i could tell them that they could switch to a web browser that both works with the websites they use and doesn't have unwanted AI features? unfortunately, Firefox currently satisfies neither of those criteria. adding something that people don't want isn't going to get you new users.
but i've sent enough ignored emails about this to your C-levels
@firefoxwebdevs @fasterandworse @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @davidgerard @zzt Honestly, why not? You've done it before. Pocket, classic browser extensions, Chatzilla, a usable address bar, the option to switch back to a usable address bar, plugins, ... all "unshipped" and that's just off the top of my head.
@barubary @firefoxwebdevs @fasterandworse @nuintari @davidgerard @zzt Nevermind that the origin of Firefox *itself*, back when it was an experimental rogue project named Phoenix, was to jettison the accumulated weight of Mozilla Suite and move all the bells and whistles to optional add-ons. Back when the browser also included an e-mail, Usenet, calendar, and chat app that couldn't be turned off. Mozilla is actively unlearning the original lesson of Firefox's wild success.
@firefoxwebdevs @fasterandworse @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @zzt your response again fails to address the many "make them all add-ons" responses.
@davidgerard @firefoxwebdevs @fasterandworse @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @zzt honestly the way Mozilla is going it's more likely they instead break the extension API to prop up their ad businesses 
@fasterandworse @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @davidgerard @zzt
By making something a plugin, I assume that means removing it from its current place - integrated into the browser. If I'm wrong about that, your option is unclear.
"it shouldn't be in the browser code in the first place" suggests to me removing it from the browser code, no?
@firefoxwebdevs @fasterandworse @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @zzt make it a preinstalled addon, easy. Mozilla has done preinstalled addons lots before.
@firefoxwebdevs @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @davidgerard @zzt why would moving if "from its current place" and making it an add-on be "unshipping"?
Convert it to an add-on, pre-install it, because we're past the opt-in point by now, then we can uninstall it like any other add-on and you can all forget about a nonsense kill switch
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