"The most common definition of an algorithm is: a finite, step-by-step sequence of precise instructions"
I'm not talking about a technical dictionary definition, I mean the way non-technical people actually use that word in the real world.
They'll typically say something like "the algorithm is showing me stuff" or "the algorithm has hidden my post".
My accounts and websites are largely aimed at non-technical people, so I try to use non-technical meanings and words.
@FediTips you are an important part of the fediverse! You are dare I say core to its success. Much appreciation for all you do
@FediTips your work is very much appreciated. Sorry you are being harassed. I frankly think that Mastodon is potentially one of the key means to avoid social media armageddon.
Avoiding Algorithmic Addiction is the key to regaining sanity…
p.s. Good grief. I'm trying to help people use this place and just got accused of "disinformation" and "causing harm" because they didn't like the way I used the word algorithm in the guide.
Can we please chill out and be a bit more friendly? The Fedi relies on volunteers helping each other and making suggestions in a constructive way.
If I've done something wrong it is brilliant if you point it out, most of the guides rely on people correcting me. But there is no need for personal attacks.
@FediTips Well, "There is no algorithm on Mastodon" *is* wrong.
To a techie an "algorithm" is "a procedure which terminates".
In this case we're presumably talking about the algorithm which decides which posts a user sees. Which *does* exist, because the user sees post! - and is described in various places (starting with "you see posts from people you follow" and getting more complicated than that).
This is a fair point and you're not technically wrong.
I've tried to cover this in the guide itself, tl:dr the dictionary definitions of technical things are often veered away from by real world use. If they are different, I err on the side of real world common use as the site is aimed at non-technical people.
Another example I give in the guide is "computer", it technically includes smartphones but that's not what most people mean if they say "computer".
@FediTips Ah yes, the "I've got half a dozen computers in my wallet [chip and pin cards]" answer.
Personally if the context is unclear I say "phone" or "laptop" or "real computer".
@FediTips
Sounds like they need to rolltheirown
@FediTips
Thank you for teaching us something about algorithms and pedants today!
@FediTips
As others already said: keep up the great work! Ignore the nitpickers and haters.
@FediTips Ugh, sorry you’re dealing with that. If I could give one gift to the FOSS & Fediverse world it would be “better communication and social skills”. Seems to be a consistent weak point 😁
@FediTips You do great work, don't worry about the queefs.
When I say #NoAlgorithmsNoMasters, I share your definition of algorithm and I appreciate your work.
@FediTips You do fabulous work. I salute you!
@FediTips The way you used the word was fine. Most people - a vast majority - don't consider simple chronological display to be an "algorithm" in any sense of the word. (Frankly, it ISN'T an algorithm, but convince them of that. Sigh.)
You're doing great work and at least I appreciate you for it. 
It is by the dictionary definition, it isn't by common usage. What the dictionary says on technical matters often diverges from common usage.
Maybe the clearest example is "computer": Most people use that word to mean a laptop or desktop PC/Mac and not a smartphone. But going by the dictionary definition of "computer", the smartphone ought to be called a computer too.
I'm trying to use common usage as I'm mainly aiming my guides at new and non-technical people.
@FediTips @jannem @Arthfach Yeah... I think anyone who takes communication seriously, as you do, has to understand that in some cases it makes sense to be pedantic about what words mean, and in other cases it makes sense to sacrifice precision for ease of understanding. What you're doing is definitely in the latter category.
A fair number of people (some of whom really should know better IMO) don't seem to have ever considered that distinction.
@FediTips Hang in there. I think you do a great job of helping out, thank you for doing it!
Just want to say that I really appreciate the work you're doing and your guides are great and really helped me to navigate mastodon a bit more confidently . thank you ❤️
@FediTips chill buddy please. Just don´t let it get to you.
I´m critizising a lot about this platform but never personal. There is potential lost here, that´s true imho.
Don´t let that get on a personal level, please
@FediTips Ugh, some people just need to chill. I think you're doing fine.
@FediTips asks "Can we please chill out and be a bit more friendly?"
I highly recommend that.
Always.
But also particularly when somebody is trying to help without compensation, just for the sake of the community.
@FediTips You are doing an excellent job. Don't let them get to you.
@FediTips I am sending more kofi money
@FediTips Perhaps a positive reinforcement will outweigh the negative one you just got
Thank you for what you do.
Oh wow! 😲
Thank you so much! You didn't have to but it is very greatly appreciated! 🙏
That's very kind and generous of you, it helps a lot with keeping the accounts and sites going!
@FediTips that sounds exactly like mastodon
@FediTips there is no pleasing those both humorless and in terminal thrall of Dunning Kruger. Just block, move on.
> There is no algorithm on Mastodon or other Fediverse server types.
I wish people stopped spreading this disinformation. Of course there is an algorithm. "Show all toots by peoeple you follow in chronological order unless they blocked you or your instance's admin blocked them" is an algorightm. Algorithms by themselves are harmles; in fact they can be very useful. I wish we had better algorithms here.
What you mean is that there is no Recommendations and User Engagement team that constantly tweaks your feed to increase engament
If you read the guide I linked to, it addresses exactly this discussion of definitions.
What you say is not what most people mean by "algorithm". I'm using the word in its common meaning of an opaque mechanism that messes around with your timeline.
I have to disagree with you, Fedi...
The most common definition of an algorithm is: a finite, step-by-step sequence of precise instructions for solving a problem or accomplishing a specific task.
You use a very small subset of "most people" and take that as your definition of most people and then couple that to what you think most people mean when using the word.
Are you spreading misinformation?
It depends: if you are deliberately creating or spreading it in order to deceive people, to influence opinion or cause harm, the answer would be yes.
If that is not the case, then at the very least, your information is incomplete, even in the context of Mastodon.
If your intention is to convince people about how and why Mastodon is better than other platforms, you have to be precise.
"The most common definition of an algorithm is: a finite, step-by-step sequence of precise instructions"
I'm not talking about a technical dictionary definition, I mean the way non-technical people actually use that word in the real world.
They'll typically say something like "the algorithm is showing me stuff" or "the algorithm has hidden my post".
My accounts and websites are largely aimed at non-technical people, so I try to use non-technical meanings and words.
I agree with Fritz... You are not even willing to consider you could do better.
So be it. I have better things to do than trying to convince someone he is writing like an AI.
Cheers.
I read the guide you linked to, and I quoted from it if you didin't notice.
What "most people" mean by algorithm is due to people like yourself spreading disinfo. What you end up doing is killing the neutral meaning of "algorithm", ironically just for engagement. Do better.
it's not disinformation, it's just everyday language vs technical language. There are lots of words which have slightly different meanings in different contexts.
For example, if someone uses the word "computer" they will probably mean a laptop or a desktop. They will not mean a smartphone or a tablet even though both of these are technically computers as well.
"ironically just for engagement"
Absolutely not. I am trying to use ordinary language to make this place easier to use.
I'd like to be able to follow hashtags without seeing posts in languages I don't understand that also use those hashtags.
#Mastodon language settings don't help with that & after having a timeline 30-35% in languages I don't know, I've ended up muting hundreds (maybe thousands now) of accounts.
In fact, I've started looking at my alt account's timeline (exquisite.social) first because Mastodon's lack of hashtag migration means my timeline there is only people I follow, & only afterwards going to my original account (ohai.social) that includes followed hashtag posts.
Are you sure you've selected the option to filter languages, rather than just setting your own interface language? (More info at https://fedi.tips/setting-your-language-preferences-on-mastodon-and-filtering-out-posts-in-other-languages )
The language filter should help at least somewhat, but by definition you won't notice the posts it is successfully hiding.
There is also an automatic language detector, and it tells people when they've got the wrong post language setting, but it's not reliable for short posts so that's why it doesn't override the person's setting.
Yes, I've set the "Filter" languages, not just "Interface" language.
(Preferences > Other > Public Timelines > Filter languages)
And many of the posts in undesired languages (in my case, 95% German) have been quite long, hundreds of characters.
I wonder if following a hashtag trumps/bypasses the language filter.
Many servers have a translation service in your Home feed, and if your server has it you'll see "translate" below posts in other languages.
However, the admin has to pay the translation service provider a monthly fee to have such a service. Not all admins can afford this, so they don't activate the translation feature. (The reason translations are "free" on commercial platforms is they're paying for the translations by selling your data etc).
I understand this
My instance use LibreTranslate
My issue is remote instances that throw an httpd 404 or httpd 503 at any attempt to translate a post from one of their posters, even when I go to their profile feed and try to translate directly from their home instance
It's really an inexcusable weak point
I remember on Github (where I follow Mastodon development) where quite some time ago Gargron himself blew off the entire auto-translate issue as too marginal to bother addressing programmatically in the distribution itself
His attitude was basically "Meh... they should all be able to read European (meaning German) anyway..."
So here we are: Mastodon as a Tower of Babel
cc @klu9
Hmm... in that case, I'm not sure what else could be done directly there 🤔
One workaround might be to use the "filters" feature to try to filter out posts containing German word(s) that appear in the posts you don't want to see ( https://fedi.tips/filtering-your-timeline-to-hide-posts-on-mastodon ).
About the long posts, some interfaces and apps shorten them automatically with a "read more" link. Are you seeing the posts full length?
Re filters, thanks, I might try that workaround. Hopefully, it'll save me muting a few hundred more accounts.
Re display of long posts in undesired languages, my timeline has had both: long posts shown complete & long with Read More.
Weird! Is it doing the "read more" when it goes over a certain length, or is it just random?
If you don't mind me asking, what are you using to view Mastodon?
Yup, this is the problem, people are using the wrong settings on their posts.
There is an automatic language detector but it isn't reliable enough on short posts to have it override the user. It does suggest to them when it thinks they've got it wrong though.
@FediTips I really would like to hide "self boosts" from people, but there doesn't seem to be an option for that on base mastodon 😪
