Post by @_elena@mastodon.social

Does anyone have any insights / scoops about the upcoming #EUKidsAct, set to be introduced this Thursday to "age gate" access to social media platforms across the EU? (Thus forcing every citizen to upload their government ID to establish their age)

I'm super worried about the impact on the #OpenSocialWeb and the Fediverse in particular.

🔗 : https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-to-propose-new-legislation-on-minors-protection-on-thursday/

I wish they would share a clear description of the platforms affected by this legislation.

#privacy #AgeVerification #EUBigTech

POLITICO

EU to propose KIDS Act on social media safety

The proposal will propose a new enforcement structure similar to existing laws’.

#eukidsact #eubigtech #opensocialweb #ageverification #privacy

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Stefan Frede

@stefanfrede@mastodon.social 14 hr. ago

@_elena Since you want to learn German, here's your chance 😉

@gavinkarlmeier and @dennishorn briefly mention it in the latest episode of Haken Dran.

https://hakendran.podigee.io/627-die-rache-der-umstehenden-mit-dennis-horn

They realised that implementing a ban would not be that easy under EU law, so it seems they are trying to save face by announcing a ban on children under the age of 13.

Fun fact: children under the age of 13 are already not allowed to use the platforms.

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Elena Rossini 🌈

@_elena@mastodon.social 13 hr. ago

@stefanfrede thank you! I love @gavinkarlmeier's podcast and I always use YouTube subtitles/automatic translation to understand it. An additional reason for me to learn German 😅 I've missed the latest episode, so watching ASAP

@dennishorn

Gavin Karlmeier

@gavinkarlmeier@mastodon.social 13 hr. ago

@_elena @stefanfrede @dennishorn 😱🥰

Jona Joachim

@jaj@mastodon.social 14 hr. ago

@_elena It's a catastrophe and will accomplish nothing except empower the police state

Patrick Leavy

@patrickleavy@mastodon.social 14 hr. ago

@_elena urgh... Is there any way to do #ageverification privately and securely? It doesn't look like it.

Didn't the EU's solution get hacked on day one?

Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩

@benroyce@mastodon.social 11 hr. ago

@patrickleavy @_elena

Valve (Steam) achieved age verification in the UK by requiring a credit card. Because to have a credit card you have to be a certain age

https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/292B-3DA3-CFC8-97F6

this doesn't completely answer your question, but it collapses the need for another privacy disclosure. the credit card company knew before, it still knows, but no one else does

but of course, now your credit card is exposed for another potential data breach

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Elena Rossini 🌈

@_elena@mastodon.social 11 hr. ago

@benroyce @patrickleavy ooooh interesting! thanks Ben

fd0 - LittleFedi

@fd0@littleone.littlefedi.social 11 hr. ago

@_elena@mastodon.social @benroyce @patrickleavy

Here in The Netherlands we have a means to share attributes anonymously. This used the the IRMA app, but has been renamed to @yivi_privacybydesign@mastodon.nl and works like a charm. I am sure people involved in that project can give details if that can
be rolled out EU wide.
It is a shame too few people use it

Elena Rossini 🌈

@_elena@mastodon.social 11 hr. ago

@fd0 @yivi_privacybydesign unrelated but I just let out a little scream when I read the instance name! I'm a BIG fan of Little Fedi 😊

anyway, yes, I agree with you that it would be fantastic is something like this could be implemented in place of more privacy-eroding ways

Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩

@benroyce@mastodon.social 11 hr. ago

@_elena @patrickleavy

obviously best case scenario: no need for age verification

but if it comes to pass, i think this is the best "how?"

because it results in the easiest, least intrusive form of disclosure

as a bonus, fediverse instances are always in need of funds, and with a cc on file, some friction is removed for donations

big problem:

the data breach potential. a nasty possibility with small hobbyist servers

perhaps there could be third party cc verification service for instances

Elena Rossini 🌈

@_elena@mastodon.social 11 hr. ago

@benroyce @patrickleavy I had never thought of things this way, so thank you Ben for assuaging some of my fears.

@studybunny reports that in Australia the strict age verification laws didn't apply to the Fediverse, but only Big Tech. Let's hope things stay this way here, too

Ben Royce 🇺🇦 🇸🇩

@benroyce@mastodon.social 11 hr. ago

@_elena @patrickleavy @studybunny

🤞

helpsterTee

@helpsterTee@social.helpsterte.eu 14 hr. ago

@patrickleavy@mastodon.social @_elena@mastodon.social Yes yes, you could do that as a non profit.

In person events for looking at your ID, generating 10k unique hashes for you, hosting a website that will say per hash "Yay, it's a valid adult person" and invalidate that. Make ToS that it is illegal to give away the hashes (unenforceable, but neither is "lending" your ID to your younger similar looking sibling).

No need to attach the hashes to the ID or the event or whatever.

Still a bad idea, though, because it will certainly exclude access to some people anyways. And nobody will do something like that, because they WANT to have the ID attached to accounts and posts. That's the only reason they do this.

Patrick Leavy

@patrickleavy@mastodon.social 14 hr. ago

@helpsterTee @_elena yeah I was wondering about that. Something you do in person (post office, library) but wasn't sure how that would translate to online.

I would prefer parents to police this, not governments and big tech.

helpsterTee

@helpsterTee@social.helpsterte.eu 14 hr. ago

@patrickleavy@mastodon.social

> I would prefer parents to police this, not governments and big tech.

Yes.....every parent has the obligation to educate and raise their children...we have mechanisms in charge that will come into play, if they don't, up to jail sentences.

But instead they roll out this specific thing and totally ignore the obligation...that's fishy.

I'd say more funding to the control mechanisms for helping kids and prevention work would actually do MORE for society than throwing money at private ID verification companies...

@_elena@mastodon.social

Elena Rossini 🌈

@_elena@mastodon.social 13 hr. ago

@helpsterTee @patrickleavy but then how would they make money via surveillance capitalism? Age verification would be a big win for Big Tech, as they would know the real identity of the person on their platform and could profit even more from their data...

Patrick Leavy

@patrickleavy@mastodon.social 13 hr. ago

@_elena @helpsterTee well yes, that is the real reason. Meta lobbied hard for age verification 🤔

Elena Rossini 🌈

@_elena@mastodon.social 14 hr. ago

@patrickleavy yes, that's why they're so smitten with W Social, le sigh. They're off the hook for any blame about age verification mishaps

Λευτέρης Τ.

@lefteristrip23@mastodon.social 14 hr. ago

@patrickleavy @_elena there is. Zero knowledge verification. That's the way eu will follow. Now, should they anyway? That's another question

argv minus one

@argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org 7 hr. ago

@lefteristrip23

“Zero Knowledge Proof” is the “Clean Coal” of surveillance technologies. It doesn't actually exist outside of the lab.

EU's “zero-knowledge” system requires an unmodified phone from a big tech company!

But ZKP is a politician's darling because it lets them do the harmful thing (face scans, ID scans, shutting down small websites) while telling the outraged public “don't worry bro, we're going to bring out the better thing any day now bro, trust me bro.”

@patrickleavy @_elena