Discussion
Watching the news out of Germany, feeling a bit baffled. AfD looks like another Trumpy ultranationalist racist-in-practice fashy-adjacent culture-warrior gang, but what I can’t understand is the pro-Russian message: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AfD_pro-Russia_movement
Why on earth does that appeal to German voters, even hard-right ones?
Two reasons:
The Kremlin's message is that it is global defender of "traditional values".
The AfD support is very high in the former East Germany and their cultural identity makes them more receptive to pro-Russian narratives.
@timbray And the factional isolation of news stories probably exists in Germany too. Everyone is being lied to, a lot of people are only being lied to.
@timbray Probably funded by Russia, certainly supported by them indirectly.
It's a combination of many things. The people over there - luckily not where I am - believe in Trump/Vance/Musk/Putin. They are afraid of immigrants (of which they have few). They don't want to have any money spent on Ukraine. They are influenced by the same media which torpedoed the Green Party trying to do something about the Climate Crisis ("Heizungshammer") with fake news. They believe that renewables are bad.
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@timbray The pro-Russian message might be more a sign of the AfD's source of funds than a source of appeal to voters.
(I'm no expert in German politics, but the Kremlin likes to stir up trouble in the politics of Western countries.)
@timbray Several reasons (disclaimer: i'm german): 1 the current german government is terribly neoliberal and disliked 2 people in east germany (former GDR) were unpreparedly thrown into capitalism in 1989, still not getting along with it. 3 the people in east germany lost all identity as "the better germany", want to get it back 4. russia (and to some extent the US) are running heavy propaganda to weaken the EU 5. "get rid of the foreigners and all will be like back in the days".
@timbray Cheap fossil energy, for one 🙄🤦🏻♂️
@timbray In particular as that was a vote on Eastern Germany that used to be part of the Soviet sphere of influence.
@timbray sachsen-anhalt part of former east german state (GDR)
@timbray your description of them is really too long. They are just nazis.
Look for the Russian money and all will become clear.
MAGA in the USA, especially in the early days, was largely powered by Russian money and many of the old guard are still simping for them.
@timbray A German native told me today that many of their voters don’t know much if anything about the AfD’s policies. And their leader is handsome and hides his agenda behind talk of community and friendship. It is populism, quite simply.
@timbray Right wing authoritarians get along with other right wing authoritarians. Predatory birds of a feather hunt together.
@timbray Why does it appeal to Trump and Maga? All those folks love dictators.
@timbray the election was in a state that was formerly East Germany (Democratic Republic of Germany). The country was a socialist party state, Russian influenced, people learned Russian in schools (not English) etc. A lot of people still remember.
@freddy @timbray Also note that the GDR had a working welfare state and *much* better rights for women: womens' rights took a big leap *backward* on reunification (eg. access to abortion and contraception, support for working mothers, equal pay). There's other stuff the west swept under the rug—ways in which quality of life in East Germany was better for the average person than the subsequent situation.
And Russian disinfo ops have had 35 years to work with this ingrained grievance.
@cstross @freddy @timbray this is true, but at the same time, I don’t think the AfD is advocating for a strong social safety net, but rather the same old appeal to former national greatness and blaming the decadent soft liberal west for queers and foreigners, with other conservative policies. (Correct me if I’m wrong Germans.)
It’s too much for a single post, but post-CW economics, oligarchs wanting to oligarch, and national resentment. That’s the Russian story, but similar feelings exist many places. That explains antiWest, but not proRussia.
The proRussia I think is just a combo of leaders being paid by Russia, and dopes believing Russia has “traditional values” and enemy of my enemy (eg tankie thought).
@jonathankoren @freddy @timbray Yup, "traditional values" and tankie thought are really useful tools for the hidden manipulators! Which I think is a lot of what's behind the AfD's pro-Russian stance. From Russia's PoV it's *much* cheaper to buy off the AfD/possible future German leadership than it would be to fight Germany.
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