Discussion
when we talk about composability in programming languages, we mean how little pieces can exist as independently meaningful things, and be composed into larger meaningful things
but what about composability of the skills of programming? im not sure theres much composability there
i recently did a thread on apprenticeship (https://kolektiva.social/deck/@beka_valentine/116883214604868489)
and one of the things i think makes programming an interestingly difficult case is that it's very hard to see how the skill of programming can be composed out of many smaller but independently useful skills
@beka_valentine You're making an analogy to woodworking, but I feel like other domains would be a closer match for software. In professional writing, you're expected to already know writing before you do novice-level professional work, albeit not up to the organization's standards. You're expected to learn skills on top of this like sourcing information and using the organization's established voice.
Learning to write is hard even when you already know the language, and there was never a motivation to break it down into small apprentice lessons. Why look for such a process for people to learn professional programming?
@sklrmths you're acting as if im making an analogy out of thin air, which i am not. i invite you to reconsider the purpose of the analogy
@beka_valentine When I wrote that, I inferred that you want to find better ways to train software developers using apprenticeship in other domains as a model. Unfortunately, I'm not able to figure out any other purpose after catching up to the latest posts in the thread.
@beka_valentine Maybe expanding the scope of programming outside of just the synthesis of code: using debuggers, version control systems, text editors, writing specifications all seem like composable skills to me?
Is it how we teach that is missing something? Apprenticeships sound like a great idea to me. A step beyond the very limited situational pair programming might really help.
@cararemixed no, that's not quite right. im going to address it in the thread, just give me time :p
@beka_valentine Sorry. I'll wait and return to this. Was just taking a moment to read the feed.
lets look at an example. suppose we're talking about for loops. how do you learn for loops properly without them being part of a larger context?
can you learn how to write a for loop without having a body with other statements in it? not really
can you learn how to reason about for loops without other statements in them? not really.
can you be tasked with writing a dozen for loops for a project b/c we need a dozen of them? no lol what
@beka_valentine Kind of.
That's what foreach with invoking some kind of callback is for.
Granted, you write such a construct only once.
but lets consider an example of woodworking, such as sharpening chisels
you can learn to sharpen chisels completely independently of any other woodworking skill
and sharpening chisels is useful completely independent of anything else
a woodworker who's guiding you through learning to be a woodworker can absolutely just give you a task of sharpening a dozen chisels b/c they're needed for a project. that's just doable
but, sharp chisels are useful for any project, what about a more specific project task?
well, using chisels to cut mortises is a useful skill too, and you can learn it in isolation of pretty much any other woodworking skill too
so if the project is to make a table and it needs a dozen mortises to be cut, you can be tasked with that, and its useful to do that. it frees up the lead woodworker to do other things that you don't yet know how to do
it's really hard to see how to do analogous things with programming, because the problems of programming are ones that are solved not by spending time with a single tool within a programming language, but by using the totality of a language as the tool
programming languages are not a toolbox full of tools, tho they have many features
they're single, monolithic tools, and solving a problem with a program involves understanding the entirety of how to use that tool well
there are other tools that one uses while programming, of course. libraries, build tools, VCS, etc etc etc
but all of these tools is itself very complicated. all of the tools of programming are complicated
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