If you are a member of Codeberg e.V. please take the time to participate in the poll that was just sent out about banning vibe-coded projects on Codeberg.
Please agree to the proposal. Slop can live on GitHub.
@tante if I join Codeberg e.V. now will I be able to vote or is it too late?
@tante IMHO this is nothing, Codeberg e.V. should even care for. If I want to put vibe-coded projects there, that’s my thing. Just walk by, there’s nothing to see.
Besides, it is almost impossible to enforce it, thus only will lead to fights whether something is vibe coded.
And finally, it’s the reality that these things happen. You may like it or hate it, but that doesn’t make AI-generated code go away. We have to accept it to a certain degree—in the end, no one is forcing you or me to use it
@stephan Codeberg e.V. is the association running the infrastructure and it's in that organization's right (and duty) to manifest the will of their members. And if the members don't want to host slop, that's their choice. People who want to vibe-code can go to literally _any_ other forge (like GitHub).
@tante I know, what Codeberg e.V. and I am also a member. Because I believe that the idea is great. If the majority of the members votes for this change, I will prepare the popcorn and watch the discussions whether something is vibe coded. To the best of my knowledge there exists no reliable way of detecting it. Thus, in dubio pro reo, that rule will be a toothless tiger a priori 🤷♂️
@tante What about those of us who have a Codeberg account, but for privacy reasons have no linked email address? Any way I can vote?
@catdraoichta this is only for official paying members of the Codeberg e.V. association
@tante What ever happened to the freedom to use software any way you want to? A still existing Debian ideal. When that was adopted the concern was for software used to do generic research, and the use of software could not be restricted from that. Now the mandarins of Codeberg, who are known for their malicious fork of Gitea, want to ban AI tools and blockchain research. Bleh.
@jeffmcneill They don't want to host that stuff (and pay for it). Which is totally legitimate. Microsoft takes all that code. Why does Codeberg need to accept it?
@tante Because freedom, wake up
@jeffmcneill Codeberg voluntarily runs infrastructure that it offers - for free - under certain terms. Defining those terms is an expression of the freedom of the members of Codeberg.
Codeberg is not a monopoly or a state actor, they don't have to include projects and people who don't follow the terms.
@tante I propose a slightly stronger rule.
"Submitting content generated in large part by so-called generative AI will be construed as implicit consent for the hiring of thugs to hunt you down and thrash you to within inches of your life. Oh, and you'll be permanently banned as well."
Funny to read some of the replies from closeted vibe coders here.
"So hard to enforce!"
"Let's not be dogmatic!!"
"But what *is* vibe coding, actually?!?!"
🤭
I would be all for it.
Except: define "vibe code", please. Where is the limit? I ask some chat bot how to join a list into a string, get a working answer and use it. Vibe Code?
Now work up the list in complexity. I ask for a class to manage the Froblimox, get the code and
- either read it carefully, understand it, fix a comment, reformat to my standard, commit
- or just commit
Which is vibe code, how do you tell?
@tante
I agree 100% with the fact that "AI" should be opposed in any possible way. But I fear that banning vibe-code can do more harm than good. I'd rather have clearly labeled vibe-code, so I can confidently never touch it, than vibe-code pretending to be actual code, which forces me to vet carefully any repo I may want to use or contribute to.
@tante Hello! I'm not in a position to pay 24€ now. Can one be a member without pay for a year or so? Thank you.
@tante ugh. No open source schism, please
@tante Thanks for giving me AI tech bros to block. 👍
@thejessiekirk @tante Precisely what I appreciate most out of threads like this, too. Outing the blockables.
@tante I don't want to give people a reason to go to a µsoft service, where they are automatically pushed to use more AI. Having them on Codeberg where they see nice human coded projects and rules telling them to warn their code is vibecoded (possibly nudging them not to use vibecoding) wouldn't be the worst thing IMHO.
@tante it will ne fun to read this in 10 years.
The biggest question is, how will it be enforced, and how strictly? Will they rely on common LLM files, author signatures, or will they use LLMs themselves to judge whether a code base is probably AI-generated? What resort will there be to appeal false positives?
@csolisr it turns out to be super easy to detect LLM code, because the AI bros never STFU about it
@davidgerard @csolisr also in the rare cases when they try to hide it, a few quick questions about the code and either you get obvious LLM replies or they completely lock up about it
@csolisr How are the rules in most (all?) F/OSS projects against the use of proprietary code enforced, and how strictly?
Same here.
So it will depend on reports then - at least regarding proprietary software, it's typically 100% clear when a source code file is under full copyright, but with LLM-generated software it's easier to mask it, hence my worry about the enforcement (both in effectiveness, and in the overhead of applying it in the first place)
And how does one propose to tell if it's LLM-assisted code?
A code scanner? Like this Mary Shelly Frankenstein that's also 100% AI?
Good luck.
@crankylinuxuser @tante It is amazing to me how loudly the slop slingers tell on themselves while very clearly thinking that they're being subtle.
@crankylinuxuser @tante this gets brought up a lot, but my perspective is:
A) a lot of AI projects are proud of it and will disclose it somewhere.
B) the collaborative nature of Open Source makes it difficult for larger projects to hide process details indefinitely.
C) if the outcome of this is that projects using AI hide their usage and don't evangelize it, that is a significant win that we should take.
AI "detection" is unnecessary for a rule like this.
@crankylinuxuser @tante programmers are some of the biggest AI evangelists right now, and if a bunch of them start hiding their usage, that is a serious blow to companies like Microsoft and Anthropic who are counting on them to help drive a narrative about demand.
We take those wins; those are real wins. I want people using AI to hide their usage rather than to be public about it, I want it to be something that's culturally shameful to admit.
Are you shameful of spellcheck?
How about Markov chains and spam detection?
Are IDEs "AI"? Like function completion, or auto completing templating?
Or if its about training and recitation, are you against PID control loops? 3 neurons.
Or STT/TTS assistive technologies offensive to those disabled people?
Or is this how much data is in the statistical array? Is 1B OK, but 35B bad?
Cause this nebulous term " AI" doesn't actually mean anything. Has no scientific definition, and has changed hundreds of times even in my professional life.
Just how far up the statistical computing ladder do we go before its "evil"?
And LLMs are just tools. I am a tool user. Just so happens that I run my own #LocalLLM .
@tante ah yea, SlopHub, not Slopberg, thank you!
@tante I could care less if people host their own vibe coded projects. I programmed for years, but who am I to judge if their project is actually useful for someone?
As long as there's no AI PR spam I'm find with it. In fact, I really mostly object to AI PR spam. Add a filter or something to let people act responsible around this.
Outright bans? nah. live and let live. If you vibe code, it's your own loss imho.
@tante
Not sure. I am afraid that the project might head into a dogmatic direction.
I would want Codeberg to be a place also for art projects and crazy side activities of people who are not experienced coders. I think, it can be fine to „vibe code“.
Maybe self-assess the handwritten vs. AI delivered code via a filterable icon? An approach simulate to the LICENSE as a middle ground?
@tante how do you prove something is slop of it doesn't have it written all over the code with em dashes and coauthored by commit signatures
@tante I will vote in favor of it. I just wish the reasoning for banning such projects would go beyond an unclear copyright situation. there are so many more good reasons to not want such projects on a platform like Codeberg.
@tante somebody buy slophub.com and redirect it to github
@tante Time to become a member, I'd been meaning to anyway. Thanks.
@tante haven't received it yet, it seems.
