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RE: https://floss.social/@danslerush/116480874311065853
#icanhazpdf @icanhazpdf
Edit: found!! Y'all are way too fast 馃槀鉂わ笍 thanks!
could someone with journal access pretty please send me the PDF of this paper? It's in Wiley Advanced Energy Materials. Battery hype making the rounds and I want to check out the details...
Paper is here: https://advanced.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/aenm.202506734
My email is kirk@dualpower.supply
Thanks in advance!
@owiecc no worries, thank you anyway Szymon!
@kirk @icanhazpdf
Please post a word about it, if it checks out to be real and not hype.
@65dBnoise I will! Often my impression is that these sorts of papers are real, but the university PR and/or science-hype-websites blow things way out of proportion. From the abstract it sounds like an alkaline all-liquid asymmetric flow battery. Which is cool but nothing new---mostly ligand engineering. There are other academic groups and startups already working on this type of system.
6000 cycles sounds like a lot, but it depends to what state-of-charge, charge density, current density, etc. Also it will almost certainly need an ion-exchange membrane by default---a critical component not found in any commercially successful battery (in my opinion of commercial success: not in Li-ion, lead-acid, V, Fe/Cr, Zn/Br flow...)
Usually the authors in the paper itself are much more measured, and don't make the same claims without context that are made in the science-hype outlets.
@65dBnoise I've skimmed it and it's about what I thought, FWIW. I have done a calculation I need to double check (might make a blog post cause I'm tired of everyone sharing these articles - I have seen this article all over the place) - but it seems like their 6000 cycles took less than 5 days to complete. Because it takes only 34 seconds to charge the battery. Because they use 40 mL of electrolyte, but at fairly low concentration (0.6 M), large cell (28 sq. cm), high current density (80 mA/sq. cm), charging to 65% theoretical max SOC. Granted, those conditions do push the electrolyte hard - it is converting between charged states many times, and they show a good improvement over other ligands. But to say "6000 cycles!" is misleading, because the cycles are extremely short by design.
@kirk
Thanks for the update. Would it be possible to replicate their tests?
@65dBnoise me? Technically, yes, I could cycle it if I had the chemicals but I don't have the financial/scientific resources to do it in my small home lab right now. If someone wanted to sponsor it I could 馃槄
The synthesis is straightforward, so probably fine without characterization---just mixing ligands with iron salts in the right proportions (they use some expensive analytical techniques to verify their compounds), but then I'd have to get Nafion membrane, which is expensive, requires hydrogen peroxide and sulfuric acid at temperature to pretreat, etc. Which generates waste in quantities I can't deal with. It would be more appropriate in an academic lab, which I don't have access to now.
In general I am not a fan of asymmetric systems like this because they are not robust. Crossover of active material from between sides through the membrane is inevitable and irreversible. Unless very cheap and suitable membranes become commercially available.
@kirk
I was wondering whether the novel "molecular shield" chemistry hailed in the article was described in the paper in adequate detail to be reproduced by others. Indeed I had DIY tests in mind, but, as it turns out, that is not the only hurdle one would have to overcome in trying to replicate their results.
@65dBnoise we don't have a good metric I know of in the battery space to measure the number of times a molecule can be converted between charge states before becoming inactive. Sort of like turnover number (in catalysis). Cycle count can be extremely misleading.
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