Huh. The act of typing this made me realize just how tired I am of all of it.
It's so similar to crypto/web3 when for a year or two everyone kept telling me that I was just dumb or lacked vision or just didn't understand shit and when it all crashed as I had predicted, hurting the people I predicted in the way I predicted everyone just moved on to "AI". The same motherfuckers doing the same shit.
Burns you out.
@tante feeling every word of this despondency.
every time i'm asked to rate some stupid company's AI assistant, i take the opportunity to tell them to stop using them & i give them all the reasons. do human eyes see (let alone, read) my words? i highly fucking doubt it.
@tante I am tired. This is very tiring. Good luck..
@tante I understand the sentiment, it is so very, very tiring.
Yet, I hold out hope, because I have seen the future.
Our twins are second year in elementary, their teacher used to use ChatGPT to give them homework. The assignments were full of misspellings and other errors (ChatGPT sucks at Hungarian). We helped the kids correct those mistakes, and when they showed their homework, the teacher saw the red lines under the mistakes, and the corrections - also in red. Kids didn't say anything. Didn't call her out. They made her uncomfortable.
By the next week, the entire class was doing this, and the teacher stopped using ChatGPT. By the end of the month, the entire school was having great fun correcting AI mistakes.
Today, "AI", for the kids, is synonymous with "liar", "idiot", "wrong", "bad". And they teach it to their parents. I've seen some of them turn, and it's becoming harder and harder to be pro-AI in our little town. Being one is considered ridiculous.
It's a small thing. But it gives me hope.
@algernon @tante Agree with you both! There's hope here, too, with most the high schoolers and many middle schoolers openly mocking AI generated content. They can sniff it out in a heartbeat at school, too. It has caused them to lose respect for some teachers that use AI in class, and at least some of those teachers are coming to the realization that using AI is not the way to teach kids the intended lessons about content, critical thinking, discussion, and working together.
@tante I’m with you, thanks for capturing my feelings and thoughts so well.
Feeling discouraged is understandable but here is a little perspective.
About two weeks ago I was talking to my mom on the phone. She's a mathematician and has been programming since there were punch cards but she never really got into the internet. A month ago we had a bit of a falling out since she was using chatGPT to help her edit this book on Civil War history that's she's doing as a hobby project. I was worried it'd destroy everything that might make the project good.
God, I hate to spoil this but here I am, to tell you that using an LLM to help with editing a manuscript can be really useful.
Every defect found in a manuscript is a defect found and corrected, and getting an LLM to do a line by line technical edit catches a lot of defects I may not have noticed anymore, and which my beta-readers might also miss because they are focused on plot and character.
The LLM also picks up when I called "Agatha", "Agnes" etc.
@screwturn Is it worth destroying our planet for? We are entering a climate emergency. We need the water, etc, that data centres supporting this need. @futurebird @tante
@CStamp
Nothing is worth destroying the ecosystem, but does my use of the LLM to edit a manuscript do more harm than doing it all on paper? I don't know, but it doesn't seem so.
If I get a steel hip joint, like so many of my friends, does that do less ecological harm than time chatting with an AI? I doubt it.
What I do know is that there is a trade, and I am unsure which trades are worse, but I do know that my use seems light
@screwturn @CStamp @futurebird @tante
> If I get a steel hip joint, like so many of my friends, does that do less ecological harm than time chatting with an AI? I doubt it.
One of those is a necessity. The other isn't. Like, those aren't even in the same league, and this argument feels almost intentionally obtuse.
@chiraag @screwturn @CStamp @futurebird yeah, it compares to "generating an image with AI uses less CO2 than a person would creating it". Because people making that argument never say what the consequence of that statement is: Have "AI" generate images and kill people for net savings? Like what kind of fucked up argument is that?
It makes most writing worse IMO. Sometimes it finds errors but it also just drains the life out of everything.
There are contexts where people what their writing to be lifeless. So it's good for that.
I think @WeirdWriter@caneandable.social made that first point very beautifully in https://sightlessscribbles.com/the-colonization-of-confidence/ and I liked it so much I want to share it to no end
CC: @screwturn@mastodon.social @tante@tldr.nettime.org
@lxo @WeirdWriter @screwturn @tante @pluralistic
Friction. I loved reading this piece.
"I have something new," Leo says. His voice is tight. "But... it's rough. It's really messy."
"Messy is good," I say, leaning in. "Messy is where the blood is."
@lxo
It's a good piece, I agree with much of it, but I think the LLM stuff is frankly just a nasty wallpaper on a fractured and oozing prison wall
Conversations about LLMs and writing seem to orbit this fantastical space up in the atmosphere, and ignore the ugly ground underneath
The whole publishing industry has ALWAYS BEEN this ugly, this homogenizing, and predatory, and LLMs are just one more sometimes useful fuckery in a long line of them that fuck writers to death
@lxo
Like start with how writing is taught from grade school on. *this* is the "right way", rules upon rules upon rules to homogenize writing, brick it in, fill it with goo.
Then layer on the cruelty and Hunger-Games of querying markets, seeking agents, talking to publishers, and the grinding fuckery of literary critics, book reviewers, book influencers.
Coat that with the endless grifters and gatekeepers, and people with their hands out.
LLMs are hardly even wallpaper
I got 404 for that link?
sorry, I somehow missed a blank after the link. fixed
My mom thought I was being paranoid. But then she calls me last week and asks "What's a data center can you explain those to me?"
So I did.
"I didn't know it was using THAT much electricity. Is that what they are trying to build?"
(she lives in rural PA and there is a big fight about a data center going up)
It was only at this point that she really "got" what the LLM was or how it worked.
"So they need to process millions of documents of text just to make it work?"
"Billions, mom"
She's stopped using chatGPT. In part because of knowing more about it and the "magic" being destroyed... but also because "it seemed like it was saving us time editing but I need to check everything so many times... so it's not saving us time."
Some of us have gotten deep in with this new tech right away and we've thought about it and made decisions and a lot of people are still just finding out "what is a data center?"
Don't get discouraged.
@futurebird @tante There's also the problem of semantic ablation: https://www.theregister.com/2026/02/16/semantic_ablation_ai_writing/
Honestly, if you are going to use AI, only use it for something you are no good at and have no interest in getting better at. Then, because it's basically average at everything, it works ok if you have no other option. [This paragraph ignores the other environmental, ethical, and societal reasons not to use it].
There are some words that my mom uses and that her sources use that are part of that little community ... things like "creek" rather than "brook" or turns of phrase.
The AI just sands all of those things away.
"Mom, I didn't even think we had 'brooks' in PA, what in the devil is a 'brook'"
I guess sometimes that's what people want. They can have fun with that I suppose.
This is wild. I hadn’t even considered the impact of AI on anthropology and linguistics. If we allow it, AI could demolish our ethnographic differences.
🤔
@tante I'm in a similar place. It's strange how selective people can be in how they gather and assess data. Slop AI is one area in a series where this has been screaming in my face how stupid collective human culture can be.
Maybe we need to move on. Look ahead, and build based on what we expect going forward rather than try to change the direction. Everything changes and almost most everything is a cycle. The period can be too long for individuals to span, but we can still contribute goodness.
@tante feeling this so much.
like there have been a lot of crazes in tech. going to agile. automatisation. putting everthing into containers.
and my tech friends believe it is just another one of those. but AI is destroying so much more then any of those other things could.
I will continue running against that wall with you.
@tante It's just me of this AI craze is longer than NFT was? My company did not move from "evaluating" for NFT before they lost their prime on the news, but for AI they are already implementing. I'm quite scared of this company future.
@daniel_gonzalez it is longer. "AI" can - even just narratively - carry more weight
@tante Understandable. I don't get how people just keep on running with the hype train even tho there are so many blatantly bad sides to it … there are basically only bad sides to it. It must be tiring to keep resisting that wilful ignorance.
As someone with a background in media philosophy, I do love your insights. Thank you for your work.
@tante I have a translator colleague who's equally fed up with having to comment on the technology (they're often asked for quotes by the media). When they asked me if they should keep doing it (rather than talk about any other aspect of translation) I said that those of us without a voice on the subject are endlessly grateful to those who can speak. I think it's the same here, sadly for you! You *can* walk away from this, but would you be at peace with yourself if you did?
@tante Personally I focus on showing that we techies aren't obligated to be excited about "AI", if you feel a need to be excited for new tech there's other options!
And old tech is awfully impressive too!
But at the same time... The controversy around "AI" keeps the conversation going, in a way I struggle to compete with.
> I can keep making the same arguments against using "AI" for anything relevant from here till the cows come home but it's not gonna change people's opinion.
Have you made these arguments in writing anywhere? I'm particularly interested in the skill atrophy angle.
Sisyphean tasks don't mean keep going until you're exhausted, demotivated, & depressed.
https://democracyproject.org/posts/sisyphean-democracy
https://vocal.media/writers/life-as-a-sisyphean-struggle-finding-meaning-in-the-futility
https://www.democracydocket.com/opinion/the-gops-sisyphean-punishment-for-supporting-trump/
It means self-care, taking a break sometimes, rest & recuperation too. Trite advice, I know but...
The fight against billionaire fascism & AI is daunting but take moments to encourage others to tag in so you can get a break & refind the joy of living.
https://jacobin.com/2023/09/climate-crisis-artificial-intelligence-existential-risk-billionaires-capitalism
1/
@tante The act of putting up resistance is valuable in itself. It makes others of us feel less alone, and keeps at least some pressure on the adopters that they still have to defend their choices. Our mistakes in the past were sometimes allowing things to seem inevitable.
"AI" is no different (in this respect) from the adtech surveillance thing. People screamed and screamed about the risks to society. Zuboff wrote years ago the definitive book on #surveillancecapitalism but the odious engine is still more or less intact, printing billions of profits every quarter, buying the souls of regulators, politicians etc.
Except... there are a few cracks here and there. You never know when they might grow and the whole damn immoral construct gets washed away.
@tante I honestly feel defeated by ai. Not only I could not keep it away from our NGO, no, I think I made it extra bad by pointing out the obvious and everybody signed but nobody listens and cared on a deep level by absolutely abandoning it. Iam tired too… and it’s not only AI it’s also all this big tech stuff.
I was interviewed for a documentary last week and we talked a lot (also about "AI") and the director told me to write a quick book on it, like bring it all to paper he'd help me get a publisher and all that. And - not trying to brag - I don't think I'd have a hard time getting it published, I do have a bit of visibility in Germany.
But holy shit do I not want to have to tie my name even more to that soul crushing, inhumane, life-negating slop topic.
@tante don't write it for the toxic topic.
Do it for the people yearning for orientation.
Do it for the school leaders und students who get targeted by AI, losing their "element" (Sir Ken Robinson) in education.
Do it so that everybody can see.
@tante you could use a pseudonym?
@tante I get that, but I think you should do it. Having an articulate argument to point to is valuable. Maybe the one you write makes the point in a way others don't. Maybe it's persuasive to those who haven't heard it elsewhere, or who didn't resonate with what they have heard, for whatever reason. Maybe it reminds the rest of us we're not crazy or alone. The landscape is saturated with propaganda; every dissent is important. And who's to say which dissent will end up making a huge difference.
Huh. The act of typing this made me realize just how tired I am of all of it.
It's so similar to crypto/web3 when for a year or two everyone kept telling me that I was just dumb or lacked vision or just didn't understand shit and when it all crashed as I had predicted, hurting the people I predicted in the way I predicted everyone just moved on to "AI". The same motherfuckers doing the same shit.
Burns you out.
dot com
house flipping
tech boom of 2010-2020
crypto boom
nft boom
ai boom
fascist takeover of the US govt
each one with a crash or a major downside (surveillance capitalism) associated.
It's my whole adult life one giant series of scams.
Can't blame you. It's infinitely tiring.
Wearing out any opposition seems to be part of the plan :-(
@tante I have this weird cycle where I keep trying AI for coding, it keeps disappointing me, the boosters keep telling me "no, this time its better". but i just can't find these promised productivity gains, except in very boring routing things.
its like the only thing that matters now is speed and craft and quality are completely meaningless ideas.
And we laugh at the people who were burned in the great tulip craze and crash centuries ago...
It's the very same pattern.
@tante It has always been the fate of the wise to see what is coming, and mostly be unable to change anything. No sense in giving up though.
@tante wenn du magst
🫂
So yeah. Thanks for listening. I'm gonna crash. Sleep a bit.
Tomorrow we'll get up and do it all again. What else is there to do?
@tante I so, so feel you. And yes, I'm so, so tired too.
@tante a lot of us are tired. I am exhausted. Thanks for sharing your feelings on the subject though, it makes me feel a fraction better!
@tante Can't say "I feel you", but I feel the tiredness.
I wish someone w/b there with you, just to give you a long hug before you go to sleep. 😔
Thanks for the things you are doing and writing...
@tante It's just ruined all the joy of this field.
@mttaggart Yeah. Especially seeing so many people who should know better bend the knee to big tech because the slot machine feels so good. Maybe that's part of it? Seeing so many people I respected and maybe even admired just throw it all away. It does feel like a form of betrayal. Even though of course none of those people owe me anything.
@tante @mttaggart Addicts gonna addict, right?
@tante @mttaggart Betrayal is precisely one of the main feelings - of course like you say not because anyone owes you anything but rather because for a brief moment of time we* had the power to shape our own destinies without having influence or capital.
@vladimir_lu @tante Betrayal and a feeling like the world is asking me to accept something I know in my bones to be wrong.
@tante @mttaggart Oddly enough, this toot reminds me of the time I got blocked by one of the German "Wirtschaftsweisen" on Twitter for pointing out some of my observations* about Blockchain and smart contracts.
* Rather simple observations, mind you.
@tante I don't know whether you care to hear this or even believe me: I fell this so hard.
AI in its current form is so deeply inhumane that it will be a generation's work to unravel the damage that the hype has done and will continue to do until it finally pops. But alas, it will pop.
@tante it's really sad to watch communities I used to enjoy being part of getting suffocated under the pressure of any old passing fool or troll barging in to start up the same old arguments about "AI"
Reminds me in some ways of the bad old days of vim/emacs or brace style flamewars in every corner of tech spaces, except that it doesn't feel as arbitrary.
@tante and one of the heartbreaking things is that the people coming in and stirring up these fights are often *beginners* who think they're hanging out on the leading edge by engaging with the topic this way
but as point of fact, they are alienating members of the community who could help bring them into it and grow their skills. because those members are tired of it and want nothing to do with people who are stirring the pot because they think it's a good thing to do.
the way these technologies mislead and waste the time of beginners is one of the things that makes me the angriest about them. newbies deserve SO much better.
@SnoopJ Yeah. The core of what "AI" produces is "epistemic injustice". On a generational scale.
