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Jeff Atwood
Jeff Atwood
@codinghorror@infosec.exchange  ·  activity timestamp 6 hours ago

@ermo @8r3n7 well, wake me up when any US billionaire pays their fair share of taxes. If you know to make this happen here in the USA, please do share with all of us how this can be made to happen with step-by-step specifics, please? I mean, I completely agree we COULD COMPLETELY ELIMATE US POVERTY IN A SINGLE DAY (at the 100% FPL level) if the billionaires paid their fair share of taxes. I wonder why that isn't happening? Seems easy, right?

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Josh
Josh
@too_little_caffeine@dotnet.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@codinghorror I've had a friend who's been stuck in poverty for a while. He's been living in hotels for years just trying to make enough money to survive the day. Is this something you apply for?

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Jeff Atwood
Jeff Atwood
@codinghorror@infosec.exchange replied  ·  activity timestamp 6 hours ago

@too_little_caffeine yes, provided there is a GMI study in his county. That's what we're trying to encourage. We need billionaires to step up.

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Jeff Atwood
Jeff Atwood
@codinghorror@infosec.exchange replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

Your suggestion is largely correct: yes, the RGMII website does address many of the core philosophical and structural criticisms raised by experts, primarily by reframing the initiative as a specific kind of research project rather than a permanent solution or a "tech-savior" mission.

Here is how the text on rgmii.org directly responds to the most common expert concerns:

Criticism: "Silicon Valley Savior" / Top-Down Approach

How the Site Addresses It: The website explicitly states that they "engage with existing local rural community stakeholders — veterans organizations, communities of faith, local businesses, and neighborhood groups."

The Rebuttal: By listing these specific local partners, RGMII signals that it is not just "dropping cash from a helicopter" (or San Francisco) but is working through the trusted networks that already exist in these counties.

Criticism: Sustainability & "Pilot Fatigue"

How the Site Addresses It: The site clarifies that the goal is not to fund these counties forever with private money, but to "eventually become policy."

The Rebuttal: It frames the $50 million not as a permanent welfare replacement, but as "seed funding" to "create more data and more history" that can be used to pass federal or state legislation. This directly counters the critique that private philanthropy is unsustainable by admitting it is a means to a legislative end.

Criticism: Lack of Evidence / "We Already Know Cash Works"

How the Site Addresses It: The initiative partners with OpenResearch and GiveDirectly, organizations that have conducted some of the largest GMI studies in history.

The Rebuttal: By emphasizing "sound, evidence-based scientific data," the site argues that while advocates know cash works, the political system still needs more rigorous, specific data from rural America to move forward.

Criticism: The "Benefits Cliff" (Losing Medicaid/SNAP)

How the Site Addresses It: While the homepage does not explicitly detail "hold harmless" agreements or waivers, it mentions partnering with GiveDirectly.

The Rebuttal: GiveDirectly is the industry standard for managing these payments. Their involvement implies a professionalized approach to benefits counseling, ensuring recipients are informed about how the cash might interact with other aid, even if the site doesn't host a complex "legal waiver" FAQ publicly.

Summary

The experts critiquing the plan often focus on the technical difficulties of implementation (waivers, cliffs, infrastructure). The website, however, addresses the strategic purpose: to build a political case for rural investment. If you read the site, the project is clearly defined as a data-gathering operation to change laws, not just a charity project to alleviate temporary suffering.

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Kimota94
Kimota94
@Kimota94@mas.to replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@codinghorror Does rural America represent the country’s racial makeup, or is it significantly more White (by 😖 than the country at large? I don’t know the answer to that but it seems like a good question to ask.

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Jeff Atwood
Jeff Atwood
@codinghorror@infosec.exchange replied  ·  activity timestamp 6 hours ago

@Kimota94 are you sure this is the correct question? Shouldn't it be "what is the racial makeup of the poor in rural areas?" It's the poor we are helping, in what I thought was a rather obvious choice, it just makes sense to me to help the people that need the most help first?

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Linus Gasser
Linus Gasser
@ligasser@social.epfl.ch replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@codinghorror Incredibly great project! Lately I thought about selling "alternative government" to very rich people: they can invest in a company which solves the problem the government is supposed to solve, but cannot solve anymore, because the rich people keep all their money.

I'm not sure about the right pitch yet :)

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Jeff Atwood
Jeff Atwood
@codinghorror@infosec.exchange replied  ·  activity timestamp 6 hours ago

@ligasser This is sort of like that, in that the "means testing industrial complex" is costing the government vast sums. GiveDirectly can do this for 90+ cent on the dollar efficiency. The government, weighed down by .. well, a variety of things, but mainly that.. does no better than 70 cents on the dollar.

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Linus Gasser
Linus Gasser
@ligasser@social.epfl.ch replied  ·  activity timestamp 5 hours ago

@codinghorror I think I don't understand the "means testing industrial complex" part...

Also, GiveDirectly will probably not do anything for public infrastructure... But it's a very nice start!

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Poligofsky 🇨🇦
Poligofsky 🇨🇦
@8r3n7@mstdn.ca replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@codinghorror Funny how the big "solution" is "more cash", when there is already too much cash in the system. I suppose if the real solution—progressive taxation—is off the table, only absurd alternatives remain.

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ermo | Rune Morling
ermo | Rune Morling
@ermo@fosstodon.org replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@8r3n7

When it is demonstrated that this approach works, progressive taxation is the means with which it can be achieved in relation to the desired change in legislative approach.

The interesting bit thus isn't "does this work", but "how does one make the evidence of 'does this work' indisputable when viewed through the lens of shaping policy, when faced with a large cohort of rich libertarians hell bent on destroying civil society in favour of a feudal society owned by them."

@codinghorror

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Jeff Atwood
Jeff Atwood
@codinghorror@infosec.exchange replied  ·  activity timestamp 6 hours ago

@ermo @8r3n7 well, wake me up when any US billionaire pays their fair share of taxes. If you know to make this happen here in the USA, please do share with all of us how this can be made to happen with step-by-step specifics, please? I mean, I completely agree we COULD COMPLETELY ELIMATE US POVERTY IN A SINGLE DAY (at the 100% FPL level) if the billionaires paid their fair share of taxes. I wonder why that isn't happening? Seems easy, right?

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ermo | Rune Morling
ermo | Rune Morling
@ermo@fosstodon.org replied  ·  activity timestamp 5 hours ago

@codinghorror I just want to point out that I think your choice of "putting your money where your mouth" is re. UBI is commendable.

I hope it makes a big difference in terms of becoming an indisputable data point.

@8r3n7

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