@helge @iamkonstantin A native app is not necessarily a better app. We've seen dumpster fire on both sides. Probably comes down to engineering talent.
I think OpenAI apps are a good benchmark. The ChatGPT is made in SwiftUI (afaik) and Codex in Electron. It's a good comparison within the same org.
SwiftUI is now 7 years old and on macOS there is still a ton of broken stuff. Should we give it another 7 years or what.
@obrhoff I was recently working on an Electron app for a client and the fact that it gives one access to a proper, mature, well-thought out rendering system was an absolute joy.
I honestly don't remember where the hate towards this architecture originates
@iamkonstantin @obrhoff Really? That is super easy:
a) resource consumption
b) non standard controls with different behavior than system ones
Apple has surely been working on deconstructing macOS consistency with Catalyst, b starts to matter less and less.
@helge @iamkonstantin Resource consumption seems to be okay. SwiftUI apps on macOS are worse. (just click a bit around in NavigationStack and let it bloat up)
Standards control is a low bar since really only a minority cares about it.
It's a good app and puts native apps made with the latest stack to shame. No denying it.
@obrhoff @iamkonstantin Resource consumption is at least 10x what a native binary would be, that’s just inherit in the tech. In part because every single Electron app carries the whole stack, it’s truly a conceptual train wreck.
I completely disagree that people don’t care about consistency and integration. But 🤷♀️
Was just answering where the hate comes from, and I think that’s absolutely warranted. In terms of Codex (or Slack which is also a „good“ app), they would be much better as native apps.
@helge @iamkonstantin A native app is not necessarily a better app. We've seen dumpster fire on both sides. Probably comes down to engineering talent.
I think OpenAI apps are a good benchmark. The ChatGPT is made in SwiftUI (afaik) and Codex in Electron. It's a good comparison within the same org.
SwiftUI is now 7 years old and on macOS there is still a ton of broken stuff. Should we give it another 7 years or what.
@helge @obrhoff Every stack has trade-offs - not disputing that. I was just wondering why so often this conversation devolves into hate and absolutism. You say Slack, Codex, Signal and others may be better as native apps but perhaps it doesn't matter to them to be native apps because don't endeavour to be a showcase of Apple's HIG for example. In fact, I believe Signal has a much better experience on macOS than say the "flagship" iMessage client. I wish we see apps in function of their purpose
@iamkonstantin @obrhoff I’m not disputing that people have different opinions on what makes a good system 😀
I do value efficient systems with consistent design. That’s why I strongly dislike Electron apps, or Catalyst ones, fwiw.
@iamkonstantin Pretty good that it came so far. If someone is to blame, then it's Apple in their arrogance.
