Today's threads (a thread)
Inside: Europe takes a big step towards a post-dollar world; and more!
Archived at: https://pluralistic.net/2026/02/11/post-dollar-world/
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@pluralistic Other payments alternatives:
- #GnuTaler free software, funded under Horizon Europe: https://www.taler.net/en/ngi-taler.html
- #satispay (but forces to have a smartphone): https://www.satispay.com/en-it/
@pluralistic This is excellent news.
Although for me personally paying with credit cards is not the killer feature but to use it as a collateral (not sure its the right word - sorry non-native here). I mean reserving hotels, renting bikes or cars, charging EVs, all require attaching credit card to an account of sorts for *future* payments. I am not aware of any european solution for this use case.
@pluralistic not seen it mentioned before: in Belgium there’s Payconiq (now being rebranded as Bancontact GO); nearly free for me as a small business owner, very easy for customers as it works with a QR code and is supported by every banking app plus a bank-independent Bancontact app.
@pluralistic German Commerz Bank just announced it'll be joining Wero too...
www.commerzbank.de
https://www.heise.de/news/Commerzbank-schliesst-sich-europaeischer-Bezahl-App-Wero-an-11173116.html
@pluralistic "and against a Brazilian judge for finding against the criminal dictator Jair Bolsonaro"
Not just a Brazilian "judge", but the Brazilian equivalent (Ministro do STF) of a SUPREME COURT JUSTICE
@pluralistic The Wero system is a rebrand of the existing Dutch iDeal system.
iDeal was created by a consortium of the Dutch banks under pressure from online retailers (ca. 2005). iDeal accounts for the vast majority of all online sales in NL.
Ever since my father had a restaurant I've hated credit-cards. For a small business, they skimmed 4 to 7% of sales and had all kinds of stupid demands (must display/advertise for the card, cannot demand a surplus for paying with CC...)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDEAL
Filing Wero next to bankcard payments everywhere, no roaming fees for mobile, no border checks, etc. in Europe
@brnrd @pluralistic In Spain we have a local equivalent, Bizum. It allows free and instant transfers between people but now it can also be used to pay online.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizum
@brnrd @pluralistic the "can't charge a payment surcharge" is actually these days EU regulation (PSD2)
the "interchange fee cap" has been in place for a decade. Most bars and restaurants should be paying under a percent ...today at least in UK it's cheaper to take consumer credit cards then pay cash in the bank.
I think that more competion is good but bad data doesnt help
@flangey @brnrd @pluralistic the "interchange fee" is less than a percent, but the point of sale (POS) terminal operator charges another 1-2% on top of that.
@brnrd @pluralistic I was going to mention the same thing. Credit card use in the Netherlands is AFAIK far less than US or UK because debit cards and online payments just work. I was appalled when I moved to the UK to discover people were pushed onto credit cards as the only way to build up a credit rating (another perverse system outcome).
@thecasualcritic @brnrd @pluralistic online payments in the UK *do* "just work"; UK has had "Faster Payments" for nearly 20 years and most of my transfers go through in a few seconds. However eurozone's SEPA is good too these days
@flangey @brnrd @pluralistic
That's true, but the difference is that if I want to pay a vendor in the UK, my options are (credit) card, PayPal or Google Pay. In the Netherlands, iDeal allows me to pay by directly debiting my current account.
I mean, I have some subscriptions that I pay via credit card because they don't even offer Direct Debit.
@thecasualcritic @pluralistic Credit Cards are theft (especially) small business.
The Credit-Card transaction fees are a cost to all of society. They stack the odds towards large companies (that can negotiate the fee way down).
@brnrd @thecasualcritic @pluralistic Not only that, but the bank I'm with has partnered with a "security" company that about once a year flags my card for suspicious purchases I myself made.
They blocked my card when I ate at a restaurant a few days ago. I called them to resolve it, which meant proving to them that I was who I said I was by identifying which grocery store I went to two days before.
When I complained that they did this kind of often, the lady countered with, "It wouldn't happen if you didn't buy things on strange websites!" GRRAGRGH!
1. Where I buy things is my business and mine alone!
2. The "strange website" was Drive-Thru RPG!
@brnrd @pluralistic but its Smartphone only, App only. So its a NoGo!
@schnedan @pluralistic
Depends on your bank. There are no iDeal or Wero apps. Online shop make you select your bank from a list. Whatever the bank's way of authorizing the payment is works.
Banks requiring an App (and a smartphone) is an issue, but a separate one.
@brnrd @schnedan @pluralistic Can confirm. I can handle small payments (with a self-imposed limit) from my Dutch bank (ASN) via the web browser on my PC.
Didn't know about this new 'EuroaPA' system, seems it comes at the perfect time.
@pluralistic It's interesting that you are my first source for hearing about EuroPA. Even not my bank informed clients in their news (living in France, where Eurocard/Mastercard are nearly the norm in every-day-life).
