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ChookMother 馃嚘馃嚭馃
ChookMother 馃嚘馃嚭馃
@anne_twain@theblower.au  路  activity timestamp 10 hours ago

@keira_reckons @emmadavidson Have you read Tim Winton's novel "Juice"?

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Alien software, human hardware
Alien software, human hardware
@mavu@mastodon.social replied  路  activity timestamp 7 hours ago

@emmadavidson you'd think this was a strange mismatch, until you realize that they also think there are to many humans on the planet, and starvation is a clean way to get rid of a reasonable percentage.

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Bellycan
Bellycan
@pelicangut@aus.social replied  路  activity timestamp 13 hours ago

@emmadavidson they're all big fans of UBI, but somehow not big fans of taxes.

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JillL
JillL
@jillL@theblower.au replied  路  activity timestamp 13 hours ago

@emmadavidson From what I can tell, we are a lot further from everyone becoming redundant than many proponents of #AI are saying. However, we should start planning for the possibility, now. And a UBI would be a good idea, anyway.

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Emma Davidson
Emma Davidson
@emmadavidson@aus.social replied  路  activity timestamp 11 hours ago

@jillL yes. UBI is always a good idea. And even if AI doesn鈥檛 break capitalism and thereby disrupt society, climate change and unaffordable housing are causing disruption already. We need ways to rebuild communities, and UBI helps everyone.

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Old_IT_geek I voted Yes
Old_IT_geek I voted Yes
@Old_IT_geek@techhub.social replied  路  activity timestamp 9 hours ago

@emmadavidson @jillL If the wealthy are so worried about receiving a UBI they could always donate it to a charity.

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馃 Yours Truly! Unruly 馃嚚馃嚘馃嚜馃嚭馃嚭馃嚘馃尰
馃 Yours Truly! Unruly 馃嚚馃嚘馃嚜馃嚭馃嚭馃嚘馃尰
@unruly@mastodon.social replied  路  activity timestamp 13 hours ago

@emmadavidson

After the billionaires "win," there will be no need for them of customers, no need for them of people, save for a few slaves, or however many they want.

mastodon

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Robert Watkins
Robert Watkins
@twasink@aus.social replied  路  activity timestamp 14 hours ago

@emmadavidson They don't need customers. They've got all the assets they can possibly want, and far more than they actually need. They'll set up a servile elite that they provide a comfortable quality of life for, and let everyone else hang.

Which is pretty much what happened for a lot of human history anyway.

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Keira (She/Her)
Keira (She/Her)
@keira_reckons@aus.social replied  路  activity timestamp 15 hours ago

@emmadavidson I assume their plan is something like:

1. Get rid of workers and maximise profits.
2. Buy essential services, land and the like, for cheap in a tanking market, and strip it for parts.
3. Build up survival likelihood for themselves, through bunkers, anti-ageing medicine, personal militias and related technology.
4. Push AI toward some version of taking over.
5. Ride out the storm without the rest of us and perhaps get to form humans 2.0 (or whatever they cutely nickname the post-singularity world).

We can see they're doing 1 and 4, they talk about most of 3 (I think Rushkoff wrote a book about it). They talk about AI takeovers. They talk about wanting to make more people like them. People just ignore it because it seems hysterical to notice.

The truly wealthy always survive the storm. These guys believe in the singularity, and they want it to happen.

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ChookMother 馃嚘馃嚭馃
ChookMother 馃嚘馃嚭馃
@anne_twain@theblower.au replied  路  activity timestamp 10 hours ago

@keira_reckons @emmadavidson Have you read Tim Winton's novel "Juice"?

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Emma Davidson
Emma Davidson
@emmadavidson@aus.social replied  路  activity timestamp 10 hours ago

@anne_twain @keira_reckons it鈥檚 on my wish list when I finish Omar Musa鈥檚 latest novel, Fierceland, which deals with capitalism and climate change and violence

https://www.anu.edu.au/events/meet-the-author-omar-musa

(By the way, if you listen to the podcast from this event, I asked the question about what music he listens to while he writes)

Australian National University

Meet the author- Omar Musa

Listen to the recording of Omar Musa in conversation with Karen Viggers on his new novel Fierceland, a globe-spanning epic of power and family secrets, on Experience ANU SoundCloud channel.Omar Musa will be in conversation with Karen Viggers on his new novel Fierceland, a globe-spanning epic of power and family se
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Keira (She/Her)
Keira (She/Her)
@keira_reckons@aus.social replied  路  activity timestamp 15 hours ago

@emmadavidson basically, they don't want or need cash, exactly, just most of whatever resource exists at any given time.

It's cash now. But if they tank everything and the rest of us starve/fight/die in climate fires, they still "win" if they have the most food, safety and comfort. I think the plan to is coast out of the end of capitalism and into the new feudal system.

If we acted while there was still some rule of law and they hadn't fully built up the militia situation, it might stop. But we won't. There are no majority-party politicians with a willingness to notice that capitalism is a little bit bad, let alone that these guys are tying to usher in something worse.

There are quite a few SciFi stories that go this way, these guys just got confused about who the heroes of those stories were.

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Keira (She/Her)
Keira (She/Her)
@keira_reckons@aus.social replied  路  activity timestamp 15 hours ago

@emmadavidson I realise I sound a bit OTT

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Emma Davidson
Emma Davidson
@emmadavidson@aus.social replied  路  activity timestamp 13 hours ago

@keira_reckons I think you鈥檙e expressing what a lot of people worry about

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Jon F
Jon F
@AvonVilla@aus.social replied  路  activity timestamp 9 hours ago

@emmadavidson @keira_reckons Yes, when you look into the weird "isms" these freaks adhere to: longtermism, effective altruism, pro-natalism; then there's the sci-fi: Neal Stephenson is a key figure, Ayn Rand of course, elements of Heinlein and selective inspiration from Iain M Banks' "Culture" novels. YOU are not OTT, Keira, you are just describing the actual OTT weirdness that these billionaire cultist maniacs are using as a roadmap. They've said the quiet bit out loud countless times.

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ChookMother 馃嚘馃嚭馃
ChookMother 馃嚘馃嚭馃
@anne_twain@theblower.au replied  路  activity timestamp 15 hours ago

@emmadavidson This is the key question. Who owns the country's resources? Are we all entitled to a share of the spoils? Universal Basic Income is the best answer imo, and the sooner the better, with so many now being affected by weather disasters. #auspol

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Emma Davidson
Emma Davidson
@emmadavidson@aus.social replied  路  activity timestamp 13 hours ago

@anne_twain absolutely agree!

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Tim Richards
Tim Richards
@timrichards@aus.social replied  路  activity timestamp 15 hours ago

@emmadavidson Also I think the billionaires have failed to factor in the inevitable appearance of torches, pitchforks, and guillotines.

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Jon F
Jon F
@AvonVilla@aus.social replied  路  activity timestamp 15 hours ago

@emmadavidson I like to consider the question in terms of David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" hypothesis. It's not actually the "work" which is valuable enough to pay people for. A great many jobs are a from of "human ballast", especially the jobs AI can replace. If we really wanted to abolish those jobs, we could do that without AI. But we don't, and even if the lurid fantasies of the tech bros come true, one assumes there will still have to be jobs for people to occupy. Even if those employees do nothing productive, they can give a company influence and consideration when the government makes policies and sets regulations.

I think a part of it is that AI is meant to bring about a transfer of power, similar to the way social media transferred power from local entities to silicone valley. There are countless other examples: tourism, accommodation, classified ads, bookselling, the record industry etc., where local control has been transferred to the likes of Amazon, google and spotify.

AI is about dehumanisation, it's a sort of coup against human agency at all levels. But it is also a way of weakening the influence of institutions, be they governments, or local groups who lose control of their communications media. Their power is transferred to the tech bros, who call their novel form of tyranny "libertarianism".

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David Penington
David Penington
@DavidPenington@mastodon.au replied  路  activity timestamp 15 hours ago

@emmadavidson While this is a concern, & higher minimum wages do lead to higher aggregate demand (notably in US states with very low minimum wages), businesses that chose to have substantially higher costs thank competitors lose customers & fail.
Fortunately,
a) so far we have found other useful work for humans. Much of it "service economy".
b) machines aren't that clever - AI is over hyped. Incremental improvements are more common than successful full replacement of people. 18 months ago I saw an LLM being used largely as a rapid programming language to integrate snippets written in other languages and it was expensive to run. The project failed.

Rural towns have faded because machines do 99% of the work that was done by humans & horses ... except picking fruit & some vegetables. Road trains move twice as much per driver as semi trailers that moved twice as much as earlier trucks. Mechanisation & automation produces less expensive food.
Hacking and ransomware is a big growth industry 鈽癸笍

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Emma Davidson
Emma Davidson
@emmadavidson@aus.social replied  路  activity timestamp 13 hours ago

@DavidPenington I grew up on a stock route in one of those fading rural towns. Contributing to the reduction in need for manual labour workers is the loss of essential parts of the community by governments. We lost our high school, library, the hospital can no longer handle births, the police station closed but is now open again 2 days a week, the only internet access is satellite. It鈥檚 hard to revive a town with new people and new industries that is so hard to live in for anyone who needs those services.

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Mosen
Mosen
@mosen@hachyderm.io replied  路  activity timestamp 15 hours ago

@emmadavidson totally agree but I don鈥檛 think they are planning that far ahead. I still hold a dream that national infrastructure would be used to bust these power imbalances, even though Aussies are now allergic to state owned stuff.

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ChookMother 馃嚘馃嚭馃
ChookMother 馃嚘馃嚭馃
@anne_twain@theblower.au replied  路  activity timestamp 15 hours ago

@mosen @emmadavidson There are signs the tide is turning in favour of state-owned services. South Australia's public transport was privatised way back when that was thought to be a good idea, but it's recently been returned to government hands, an action widely applauded here. People are saying "great! Now do the same with XYZ". It's pretty clear privatisation just leads to poor service. See also child care.
#auspol

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Emma Davidson
Emma Davidson
@emmadavidson@aus.social replied  路  activity timestamp 14 hours ago

@anne_twain @mosen yep. I was one of the three Ministers in the ACT who was supposedly spokes (although no journalist ever asked me anything about it) for the Government takeover of the Catholic Church-run public hospital and emergency department in Canberra in 2023. I have no regrets, it was the right decision for the future of public hospital services on the north side of the city.

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ChookMother 馃嚘馃嚭馃
ChookMother 馃嚘馃嚭馃
@anne_twain@theblower.au replied  路  activity timestamp 14 hours ago

@emmadavidson @mosen Yeah, anything related to the care of people should be in government hands.

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