RE: https://nomenloony.com/@nomenloony/116019280517956996
Notes for Americans:
1. Until 1992 you had to wire your own plugs onto new electrical appliances in the UK (they were sold without pre-molded plugs).
2. Mains voltage is 230VAC, not 110VAC. It'll kill ya.
3. If you follow ChatGPT's advice *YOU WILL DIE*.
@cstross So here’s what I don’t understand. If I search “How to wire a UK plug” and ignore the AI, the first handful of sites I checked all have correct wiring diagrams. There must be hundreds of correct diagrams online. So if the AI is basing its answers on what it finds, why is it getting this wrong? It should be easier to get it right than wrong !
@elaine1helen AIs are *generative* and they're designed to generate an answer shaped object, not provide an *actual* answer.
@cstross this is still ok, right?
@cstross And the reason that pre-fitted plugs were made mandatory was because so many people didn't know how to correctly wire one.
Which I find intensely depressing, as I have known how to wire one from very young.
@SteveClough Note that by that point the UK had been almost universally re-wired, and EU safety legislation required molded plugs.
@cstross Nonsense and lies by libtard poindexters! And we'll show youse! Sharing with all my MAGAt friends!!
And they say there's no air in space! Ha!
@cstross @purplepadma @nomenloony
The Fake AI and The Real Darwinowing
@cstross one saving grace here is that ChatGPT's plug has its pins in completely the wrong position so you're not actually going to be able to plug it into a socket anyway
@cstross But a lot has changed in basic ability since 1992. Not in the positive sense either.
And people in China now wire the plugs on for you.
@cstross out of curiosity, surely it spits out a slightly different thing every time? Have people replicated this? I'm sure it'd give similarly deadly results multiple times
which is why people really need to do better and learn what these things are (not) so they don't fking go to it for advice and how-tos in the first place :/
@cstross ...i hate to break the news but AI is a "tool" that has it's uses but also it's limitations, AI is great for several things but certainly not for this...
@ErikJonker Shocking to you, I know, but I think the stuff currently sold as AI is bullshit.
@cstross I am fully aware of all it's limitations , there is an awful lot of AI bullshit around, but actually also a considerable amount of useful applications
@cstross Gosh, is it really as long ago as 1992? I was just thinking the other day it had been a while since I last wired up a plug. How time flies.
@statsguy I can't remember when I last wrote a cheque, either!
@cstross Nor can I, now you come to mention it.
Though I was just discussing with someone recently about when I last sent a fax, which was sometime around 2013, give or take. Probably several years after the penultimate time I sent a fax, but I was communicating with my bank, and weirdly it was the only way they could accept correspondence about what I wanted to talk to them about.
@cstross omg that's painful to even look at
@cstross When people used to list life skills they thought should be taught in schools rather than academic subjects, how to wire a plug was a popular choice. So also was how to balance a chequebook.
@dearlove Also how to correctly address a letter (both on the envelope and in writing the contents). Reading a clock face and tying your shoelaces was supposed to be covered before primary school, though (by parents or kindergarten).
Copilot just now with prompt.
show me a picture to explain how to wire a UK plug
Interested in the Earth being a 4th pin and the Earth pin having a live (coloured) wire going to it.
Also, a screw labelled as LIVE is concerning.
@cstross I love those plugs I can open with a screw driver ... those are lifesafers when you want to hook up your solder jobs (mostly high power bench supplies and audio amplifiers with 100-1000 W) had to cut up sooo many perfectly fine cables until I found one where the plug ad a screw to open it.
AI 101: never believe any answer AI gives you.
AI is for entertainment purposes only. It has zero functionality to ensure it's replies are correct. Worse, it is designed to make it's nonsense replies sound as plausible as possible.
@cstross Was (1) due to variation in outlet designs in different locales or some other reason?
@swetland The UK had regional plug variations until the 1920s/30s and then a huge push to standardize and rewire the nation from the late 1940s onwards that took decades to run to completion.
@cstross Suspected it might be something like that. Deferring to the appliance/device purchaser is a fascinating approach.
I grew up during the conversion to grounded outlets and from Bell System to Modular phone jacks, so it's not like we didn't have plenty of connector weirdness on this side of the pond too.
@TimWardCam @swetland The house I grew up in was only rewired with modern sockets and ring mains in 1974. Before then it was all round-pin sockets (two sizes, small ones for lamps only).
@cstross at least in my secondary school, they were still teaching you how to do it in the early 00s
But sure, let's become "an AI nation", build "AI gigafactories" in order "not to be left behind" ... /s
@cstross I'm leaning toward "boom" with these. But I'm not an electrician.
@cstross @lispi314 It hasn't been relevant since websites entered the general public's consciousness. I became an adult a few years after the relevant change in the law and I've been a (mostly ...) perfectly functional adult for the three decades or so ever since without ever having bothered to learn how to wire a plug. Literally never needed that skill.
@cstross Why is this always "Notes for Americans"?
Are Americans the only people in the world who aren't British?
Do you think British people born after 1992 have a fucking clue why this is funny?
Have you ever tried to reconcile your feelings of "America isn't the center of everything" with your obsession to make America the center of everything?
"For people outside the UK" would have been a far better (and more inclusive) way to start your post
@codebyjeff Because it's mostly Americans who're stupid enough to think the entire planet is just more people like Americans. (Also I am old and you are missing the point.)
@cstross
If you want a computer to produce wiring diagrams like this correctly, you need something called an expertise system, which is a very different beast from the various technologies we refer to as AI.
@tofugolem Expert system, not "expertise" system, and no, not really, that's not what they're for (did a course on designing them circa 1990)
@cstross Wow, did not know number 1. I wonder when this practice stopped in New Zealand. I remember my dad wiring plugs but then that was his trade.
@cstross FWIW ChatGPT wants to be WebMD 2.0 so there's that 😑
@cstross Luckily, you can’t follow its instructions in this case because there is no black wire in the standard three-wire bundle.
"1. Until 1992 you had to wire your own plugs onto new electrical appliances (they were sold without pre-molded plugs)."
This is such a stupid thing.
The plug itself is very good, but having to wire it yourself is painfully dumb.
@csstrowbridge Were you even alive during my 20s?
@cstross volts jolt, amps kill.
@cstross I will post what I had posted in the post you are quoting, because it needs repeating:
What the flippin’ hell 😳🙀
Just so ya know I am *NOT* an electrician and I am freaking out at this image 🙀💀!!!
“We’re doomed” 💀
(Please play in your head Bernie Sanders’ doppelgänger/distant cousin when he said that exact line 😹)
@cstross Regarding #3, ... and? 😁
@cstross as an American who was awake and aware prior to 1992 and growing up in a house with multiple appliances from the 60s, I can attest that the only household appliances I ever saw that did not include pre-molded plugs were washing machines, and the one I bought in 2024 was the same way. Agree with the other two. Most houses of the day had a 230 outlet specifically for the air conditioner. Washers tend to be 230 as well. We have standardized on dumb.
@dresstokilt I'm talking about the UK. Where EVERYTHING runs on 230v and nothing came with a plug prior to 1992. Read for context!
@cstross You...you had to wire your own plugs? Seriously?
How many people killed themselves each year because they didn't know how to do it properly and were too impatient to wait for someone who did?
@mpjgregoire @jbayes Because NOTHING was sold with a pre-molded plug until it was required by law from 1992. (This is the UK we're talking about.)
@mpjgregoire @jbayes They didn't fit plugs because doing so would have cost them money *and nobody else was doing so*. Plugs were sold separately to consumers. Every corner shop sold them!
@cstross how many do you keep around, "just in case"? (Me: two or three at least)
@cstross It's OK, I've called the Darwin Award committee, they'll sort it out.
@cstross 1.a) The UK still had homes wired with the old round pin (2,5,15 amp) plugs until stupidly late.
A 2a round pin gave just enough energy to use a wee heating element to boil a cup of water.
For 13A plugs, the lowest available fuse was 3A so an old boilette could overheat for minutes before the fuse would blow....
@akicif I know: I grew up in one of those houses. (It was rewired when I was 13.)
oh yeah, well 60hz works better for clocks so..... 
@cstross I do these threads every so often. My most recent one was on my Bluesky where I got four LLMs to draw maps progressively getting more zoomed in (the World, Europe, UK, Yorkshire, York).
Things got worse each time you zoomed in, sometimes with "memories" from the previous image. My favourite was the attached version of Yorkshire.
I'll do another one in a month or two.
There are WORSE AI-generated images of how to wire a UK mains plug. Here's one I saved last year.
@cstross Look carefully - designed by M.C. Escher
@cstross Seems it would save time just to stick your fingers directly into the socket, no?
@cstross @drahardja I mean, they don’t even SHOW the purple wire.
Okay, you've convinced me! Now I'm ready to support a million satellite data centers.
/s
NO I'M NOT! I'm having another IRONY attack, folks! DO NOT seek AI advice on anything electrical! DO NOT buy into zany schemes for becoming a 'Kardashev Level II Civilization' by making Low Earth Orbit into The Junkyard In The Sky!
@cstross it does not look possible to physically plug this in. If so, that obviously calls for an "AI"-generated adapter to go with the plug!
@cstross the yellow wire is to report when you have put a coin in the appliance to pay for the electricicles
@cstross I figure at the rate of the Accelerando, we are no more than weeks away from "agentic AI" demanding access to people's financial accounts. Hopefully some of those people will be billionaires drinking their own Kool-Aid.
Don't worry, your bank will do it for you.
https://www.macquarie.com.au/digital-banking/q-ai-agent.html
How the Holy Hell did they generate that? I mean, the UK has had more than enough competing designs over the years (some more dangerous than others), but that one's a physical impossibility.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets:_British_and_related_types
I've used most of those, over the years, plus the bizarre one with standard earth pin, one round pin and one rectangular (rotated 45 degrees) with fuses for both small pins (Bi-phase 240V centre-tapped to Earth!) That one was at Dunlop, and now gone. (Thank the Gods.)
@cstross Ok I think I know who did the wiring in my house now. They literally painted the end of the wire when they used the wrong one.
@cstross
that's what you get feeding Escher drawings to AI bots
@cstross I just asked Gemini to create one for us in Australia. Might try it later… just not sure…
@cstross yeah right….
@cstross
Looks plausible to me 🤣
@cstross M.C. Escher would have been proud.
@cstross At least this one is sufficiently Escher that nobody is likely to die, I guess?
https://wandering.shop/@cstross/116020538899400484
@cstross adding that diagram to the set of things I remember when someone tells me they're adding AI to some product/domain as a Good Thing
@cstross That one at least is so bad that you couldn't actually match it to anything in a real plug. The one up-thread is much worse, because it looks more or less like the innards of a plug.
@cstross Escher's Suicide Plug
@cstross OTOH that one is such obvious garbage that even if someone tried to follow it they'd fail.
The danger is with plausible but wrong. OTOH the one showing phase and neural linked is going to go bang quickly, where swapping phase and earth is a known killer. Maybe that's why the LLM wanted a fused earth?
Was gonna say I knew I had already seen an LLM tell someone to kill themselves with electricity before
@cstross Blive implies the existence of a Bdead
@cstross Genuine Darwin Award territory.
![Robert [KJ5ELX] :donor:](https://media.infosec.exchange/infosec.exchange/accounts/avatars/115/833/042/784/456/710/original/6c4929fda05c7451.gif "Robert [KJ5ELX] :donor:")
