Post · bonfire.cafe

Post

@are0h yeah, the "not respecting deletes" thing in my arg also falls apart to the fedi-- i'm bullish more on things being encrypted before they even get distributed, with just public facing tags for optional discoverability.

my bluesky app is mostly the feeds with the ability to actually click and see replies and threads-- i didn't implement the oauth flow, so it is just password: https://sillyz.computer/app/blue-sky (i think the only major bug that bothers me is that i didn't implement "parent context" in the main feed, so i have to click things that don't make sense to see the thread, but that's 100% on me)

the idea once done is that i can edit my client from web: https://sillyz.computer/app/was-code?src=/public/elves/blue-sky.js

this is a very minimal social flavor with all the overhead deleted: https://sillyz.computer/app/face-less

(code: https://sillyz.computer/app/was-code?src=/public/elves/face-less.js)

my latest actual passion is building a slack/teams clone, wip: https://sillyz.computer/app/dream-team

my favorite service to run to create real-time multiplayer is this: https://geckos.io/

i'm mostly just here because it feels closer to what's next, but here is so fundamentally flawed.

i'm personally pretty happy just gossiping subspace data over geckos, which is what every video game really is (15 minutes of ephemeral data)

<:-)

the harbinger of eternal sept

@tychi@merveilles.town replied · 5 hours ago

@are0h man, I just started following you there like three days ago

By the time I found you I was already done actively posting cause of the disproportionate moderation

You and Link are banned, but ICE is verified and just posting mug shots from their flip phones

That’s literally all anyone needs to know about VC sponsored social, regardless of protocol.

Bully of Bullies, Inc

@are0h@polychrom.ing replied · 5 hours ago

@tychi Yeah, I very strongly disagree with this because this happens on the fedi all the time as well, but people tend to ignore it because it doesn’t fit whatever ‘moral criteria’ one wants to make up.

And to be quite honest I’m sick of this AP versus Atmosphere nonsense many projects in the fedi mimic the behavior of Bluesky before it was even a thing.

It’s just hypocritical to condemn Bluesky but straight up ignore why there are so few Black and Brown people that want to be visible in the fedi.

the harbinger of eternal sept

@tychi@merveilles.town replied · 4 hours ago

@are0h i totally agree with you-- i wrote a bluesky client and it's one of my favorite apps. they really nailed the api and sdk for building social experiences. i think the vertical approach makes a ton of sense (social app, with custom algos, with moderation, with custom apps, with custom protocol), to be able to meet the actual challenges of growth and adoption.

my main issue is the cost to actually back it-- the infra and complexity to get started as a full node (appview and all) on the network is too high. i'm into things that can run on raspberry pis.

tbvh, i think some of the scaling challenges are partly from AT having an SSB influence, which i think is why posts can't be edited. I checked the blacksky public forum and so many feature requests were asking for editable posts, which is a protocol level assumption that I don't see getting changed. any first-party edit i think would just be a delete -> new post workflow, which still requires every node to respect the delete operation.

it's easier to point to things like subjective moderation, because infra conversations are lost on most people. there is a touch of tongue in cheek about it though, since i have been around bluesky at events, so it's a juxtaposition to hear about how they're a bastion for the people and you're getting banned for stuff that's still mild compared to _reality_.

like, "go to blacksky if you want to complain about colonialism" doesn't feel right, especially given the state of the state.

fedi has serious moderation problems and i appreciate the work you do pushing trust and safety here.

i think the future isn't even somewhere in the middle between AT and AP because they're just arbitrary points. i think the future is more like a total network overlay powered by something like TBS, composable, coordinated moderation, over any experience, AT or AP or otherwise.

Bully of Bullies, Inc

@are0h@polychrom.ing replied · 4 hours ago

@tychi I hear you. What app did you create? I'd like to check it out.

Yeah, there are some technical issues that definitely need to be addressed, but they will be address over time. To the point you make about raspberry pis, that's already happening, so atmosphere devs are showing it's evolving in ways that will account for the issue you discuss.

its funny to me when people bring up this point about post editing adhering to the AT spec making it difficult to add additional features when we see ActivityPub instances and apps not religiously sticking to implementation to add features. that's not a massive hurdle, but one that does take some thought to get around, so that will be figured out there, just like it was here.

Hm. But the thing is I get banned, dogpiled and attacked for saying the same things I the fedi, so it's all kind hypocritical to me. I thinks folks like to evangelize about the fedi because it makes them feel better, but the reality is that it isn't much different than Bluesky, Twitter, Facebook in terms of what kind of culture it encourages. And in many cases, it's actually worse because there is an active strain of people here who are anti-moderation.

I feel you on this. I don't think the protocol matters in the long run if the tools are good and whatever platform implements them is easy to use. I think a lot of people just underestimated what it takes to run an indie social media community, so the tools are lagging behind even though there are quite a few options to choose from, platform wise.

It's one of the main reasons Bluesky was able to catch up to the fedi despite the fedi having a massive head start.

the harbinger of eternal sept

@tychi@merveilles.town replied · 4 hours ago

the idea once done is that i can edit my client from web: https://sillyz.computer/app/was-code?src=/public/elves/blue-sky.js

this is a very minimal social flavor with all the overhead deleted: https://sillyz.computer/app/face-less

(code: https://sillyz.computer/app/was-code?src=/public/elves/face-less.js)

my latest actual passion is building a slack/teams clone, wip: https://sillyz.computer/app/dream-team

my favorite service to run to create real-time multiplayer is this: https://geckos.io/

i'm mostly just here because it feels closer to what's next, but here is so fundamentally flawed.

i'm personally pretty happy just gossiping subspace data over geckos, which is what every video game really is (15 minutes of ephemeral data)

<:-)

Bully of Bullies, Inc

@are0h@polychrom.ing replied · 3 hours ago

@tychi Yeah, exactly. I think it can be addressed, but it just hasn't for a lot of reasons that are just frustrating to me. The encryption piece is a big one too.

Oh yeah, I remember you showing me this once and I just never got around to checking it out. I need to give this a hard look.

Yeah, I get it on why you're still here, because fundamentally I feel the same. I see what the fedi could be, but it's often held back by trying to be the opposite of something rather than forging its own path. I've always felt it was reductive to build alternatives to platforms we know don't work and aren't sustainable.

It feels like the fedi could be doing better but it just doesn't because it's satisfied with being a less featured alternative to garbage platforms instead of pushing forward into uncharted territory and just try new things.