This week I gave nearly the same talk to amateur astronomers (Monday) and to professional astronomers (Thursday). It's super depressing, all about satellites crashing in orbit, pieces falling on us on the ground, atmospheric pollution and how the law really doesn't help us at all with any of this.
While the talk for amateurs was depressing, everyone kept their spirits up, and seemed somewhat energized by the list of possible actions I provided at the end of the talk.
But the talk for professionals ended with mostly stunned silence and a room full of overwhelmed scientists. The week after next I'll be giving this talk to 3 physics departments, so I need to think carefully about this response.
Was it because they are all so busy that suggesting even one more thing to do is overwhelming? (Possible)
Was it because the list of actions I suggest are rather futile?
Was it climate grief, but for the night sky?
@sundogplanets Are your talks recorded and shared? e.g., on freetube (preferably), or youtube.
@sundogplanets I would say, from experience, likely a combination.
E.g. "Was it because they are all so busy that suggesting even one more thing to do is overwhelming?"
Yes.
I'm particularly familiar with this in respect to having implemented educational changes in a Uni department.
My strategy there was to ensure changes included focussing on less work for academics (at least, less of things they didn't want to do e.g. admin and more of what they did e.g. actual physics / astro). Also...
@sundogplanets here is my experience with some of the Climate/academic travel & climate talks I gave at astro/physics departments - if comparing notes helps. I think the response is mostly a lot ofr experience of trying to change the system and bitterly failing.
What helps me: address this feeling heads on, point out to people that hope is an action, not a feeling. If there are examples of things that worked, list them around the actions, possibly after, as the last thing for ppl to remember.
@sundogplanets Could it be that the amateurs didn't actually grasp the scope and consequences of what you were saying, so still had hope, where the professionals did and saw just how screwed we are?
@sundogplanets if people hadn't put the pieces together yet, it was probably shock, like they needed to process it before they could sort out grief, anger, horror, concern for their profession, and all the rest!
@sundogplanets The realization that what they've dedicated their life and education to might be about to nearly end?
@sundogplanets
I am not able to check your data, facts and conclusions but believe you, even all this sounds unbelievable in many ways. Perhaps, and regarding to the overwhelming amount of fake, scientist are more sceptical at first range?
@sundogplanets "grief for the night sky" -- it's both a poem and a science fiction short story. Hmmm... I'd better get writing it!
@sundogplanets Is it possible that the amateurs already had some familiarity with this topic, and that’s why they attended the talk? Vs the possibility that it might actually be news to the professionals, who get involved in their own niche and maybe weren’t as aware of the problem? I.e. They were stunned to hear about it for the first time.
@sundogplanets
Perhaps they are feeling overwhelmed for all of the reasons stated, and adding to your list geopolitics, the economy, and climate.
Here's my list of actions (which I frame carefully by saying "when I hear a depressing talk, I want a list of things I can do myself immediately. If you are like that, pick one or two of these and run with it! If not, no guilt!")
Giant, powerful corporations like SpaceX will respond to only 2 things: legislation (which is very slow, and is now totally not going to happen in the US), and consumer pressure.
If you have alternatives, DO NOT USE STARLINK.
@sundogplanets I can't imagine anyone using starlink if they have alternatives tbh. Like even shitty semi-rural broadband is objectively better than starlink in latency, reliability, speed and cost
@sundogplanets Even if amateurs understand the topic at hand very well, I’d imagine pros are more likely to understand future consequences, since they not only understand the facts but also how things are done and run when it comes to rules and guidelines. So I guess your talk, which I‘d really love to hear btw, was probably a stark reminder that things aren‘t going well up there.
@sundogplanets Unfortunately this is way more difficult than you think. I was happily using T-Mobile, for example. Well, they were basically the first of what I assume will be the rest and started using StarLink for reduced latency and increased coverage somehow.
If you do not have alternatives (I live in rural Canada, I know how crappy rural internet is), tell Starlink, as a paying customer, that you want them to do a better job with orbital safety, atmospheric pollution, and light pollution. Tell them you want their satellites to be smaller, and you want them to provide service with fewer satellites.
They will listen more to you as a paying customer than to me as a complaining astronomer.
You you have access to other satellite-based Internet providers Viasat or Hughesnet?
Talk to your friends and family about what is happening in orbit – most people have no idea the scale of unregulated commercialization that's now happening.
Tell your local/state/provincial/federal government representatives to support alternative ways of accessing internet (cell towers, new fibreoptic lines). Rural internet is crappy because of *decades* of underfunding rural infrastructure development.
RE: https://spacey.space/@spaceflight/115871720538017814
I assume you've seen this, but just in case:
https://mastodon.social/@spaceflight@spacey.space/115871720582271182
RE: https://spacey.space/@spaceflight/115871720538017814
I assume you've seen this, but just in case:
https://mastodon.social/@spaceflight@spacey.space/115871720582271182
Check out the damage Elon Musk does attempting to get to orbit:
@sundogplanets It's hard to lay down a bunch of tax money on infrastructure we don't own. It's just more corporate handouts. They don't spend it responsibly, we don't get what we want, and it just pads the pockets of already rich assholes who break everything they don't directly own on purpose.
The damn cable people are the worst too. Claim total rights over infrastructure that WE paid for and then use it to just suck us dry.
This one applies to both amateur and professional astronomers: use your skills to show people the beautiful night sky! This is SO important to let the general public know what they are losing thanks to the billionaire space race.
So many astronomers donate their time to public observing nights and star walks and just setting up their telescopes in random places and letting people look through them. THANK YOU! Keep doing it!!
@sundogplanets as an outright amateur who just loves looking at the night sky (and has done for the last sixty years), I couldn't agree more to this!
And a huge shout-out to the astronomers from the Royal Observatory, Edinburgh, who give their time giving public talks in Edinburgh libraries! 😊 @astroroyalscot.bsky.social
Lastly, join groups who are already fighting. For all of you reading this (statistically mostly non-astronomers), I most highly recommend DarkSky International. They are a fantastic group doing great work!
As an example, please sign this open letter from DarkSky protesting against Reflect Orbital, which will be sent both to the company and to their fucking terrible investors: https://darksky.org/news/organizational-statement-reflect-orbital/
And get ready to write to the FCC when that comment period opens!
