This purports to be “a contribution to the ecosocialism vs. horizontalism debate” in #degrowth, but I find this whole discourse hugely frustrating, akin to asking “Would you rather live in a ten-story Tadao Ando bunker or get around in a solid platinum ekranoplan?”. Neither of the mooted prospects is remotely on offer in any polity I can think of. The nemawashi, the painstaking work of relationship-building & political communication necessary, has barely begun. https://www.resilience.org/stories/2025-10-30/minority-influence-how-can-degrowth-step-up/
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@adamgreenfield Don't you realise that the most important contribution any socialist can make is a heavily-referenced, jargon-filled, theoretical analysis?
And I say this as someone who believes in my bones that something very strongly resembling “degrowth” is necessary to the project of our survival.
At present – so far as I can fairly judge from my own experiences in trying to make the case for this way of being and doing – it remains a very hard sell for most people committed to hegemonic mainstream understandings of the economy and their role in it. Asking which flavor of it we’d rather have feels abstract to the point of irresponsibility.
@adamgreenfield the degrowth narrative I’d like to see written about is one which separates virtual and physical growth and then allows for continued growth of the former and rapid degrowth of the latter. Eg a 100% local renewable-powered world where phones last a lifetime, clothes are repaired, hardware is shared/coowned/borrowed.. but virtual goods, be it video game economies or ebooks can grow unabated. Would that satisfy both planetary needs and doom-growthers saying we can’t afford a crash?
@nicol I don’t know! Say more about the opposition you perceive? Who are the “doom-growthers”?
@adamgreenfield I mean the people saying de-growth – or anything that doesn't allow the incurred debt on money supply to appear to being repaid – will hurt the poorest the most, ie that it will cause a crash and depression, and other doom-like scenarios, etc…
NB - my economic understanding here is kinda limited to seeing a film once which explained the obsession with growth is based on the need to pay off interest on public debt/bonds, which currency values & import/exports are all linked to..
@nicol That’s really interesting. You don’t happen to remember the name of the film, do you?
@adamgreenfield that was Peter Joseph's Zeitgeist Addendum from 2008… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist_(film_series)#Zeitgeist:_Addendum
Before '9/11 conspiracy' and 'one world government' was a red flag for fascist agitprop I remember when people were talking about those films seriously, tho they've probably dated really badly now. I still think about the section from the start of the first film about the links between the winter solstice and ascension stories, tho probably incorrectly…
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