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Strypey
Strypey
@strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz  ·  activity timestamp 4 months ago

One of the problems with the Web 2.0 monolith pattern (server + web client) is that it makes community-hosting of services seem much more resource-intensive than it needs to be.

How much of the server resources used by a standard Matrix homeserver install, for example, is used by the Element web client? How much cheaper would it be to run a headless Matrix server, and use native Matrix apps on whatever devices you use?

EDIT: Or a headless AP server + native apps?

#CommunityHosting #monolith

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Chris Burgess
Chris Burgess
@xurizaemon@toot.cafe replied  ·  activity timestamp 4 months ago
@strypey running element alongside your home server is optional I believe

Hardware requirements listed at https://docs.element.io/latest/element-server-suite-classic/requirements-and-recommendations/#hardware

> Element recommends a minimum of 8 vCPUs/CPUs and 32GB ram for the host(s) running synapse pods.

Add a couple GB for microk8s ;)

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Jan
Jan
@janw@23.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 4 months ago
@strypey @evan That's not how API backend + Browser-based client-side applications work. Serving the client to the user's browser (it's just JavaScript running on the user's machine) uses a negligible amount of server resources. If that's your concern with running a given service, then you probably shouldn't bother anyways. If you feel strongly about this, nothing's stopping you from just blocking the routes to serving the frontend files in the webserver.
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Strypey
Strypey
@strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz replied  ·  activity timestamp 4 months ago
@janw
> Serving the client to the user's browser ... uses a negligible amount of server resources

This seem to be a common assumption. You got some numbers to back that up? Generated from a repeatable method?

> nothing's stopping you from just blocking the routes to serving the frontend files in the webserver

Nothing's stopping me from mowing my lawn with a pair of nail scissors either. But the purpose of automation and software packaging is the do jobs for us, not give us extra jobs.

@evan

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Jan
Jan
@janw@23.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 4 months ago
@strypey Gosh, I would have dug some numbers up if you actually showed interest in that but since the whole premise of your post was already vibe based ("… makes community-hosting of services SEEM much more resource-intensive …") I only based the response on my 10+ years of running various kinds of services. Apologies for that.
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Evan Prodromou
Evan Prodromou
@evan@cosocial.ca replied  ·  activity timestamp 4 months ago
@janw @strypey yeah, I guess I don't know what your point is. I think it's pretty standard practice on today's Web that as a server scales to separate Web UI from the API server, and often to deploy it on a CDN. It sounds like you don't think that's necessary or important?
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Strypey
Strypey
@strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz replied  ·  activity timestamp 4 months ago

(1/2)

@evan Instead of settling the question by suggesting a way to objectively measure the resource usage in question, @janw just took offence and blocked me. So I'm just going to assume it was bad faith engagement from the get-go 🤷‍♂️

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Strypey
Strypey
@strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz replied  ·  activity timestamp 4 months ago

If anyone knows of repeatable methods for measuring delivery of web apps, as a proportion of server resource usage in server + web client monoliths, sing out!

I'm still very curious about this.

(2/2)

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Worik
Worik
@worik@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 4 months ago
@strypey AFAIK very few resources used on server by electron

It runs ob the client

Electron is a UI library

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Strypey
Strypey
@strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz replied  ·  activity timestamp 4 months ago
@worik
> It runs on the client

https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/115178085147480067

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neovolny
neovolny
@neovolny@silverbay.space replied  ·  activity timestamp 4 months ago
@strypey One of the problems with the Web 2.0 is web standards changed every month by 1.5 parties having zero idea of backward compatibility and causing shit like https://silverbay.space/system/media_attachments/files/115/174/790/909/764/720/original/83904126fd3bc476.png without hesitation.
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vivi 💫
vivi 💫
@vv@solarpunk.moe replied  ·  activity timestamp 4 months ago
@strypey I think most of the overhead of Matrix comes from its use of Python. Unfortunately the successor, written in Go, is languishing due to lack of funding. It is significantly more lightweight, but at this time I can't recommend it due to the aforementioned lack of coding resources put into it currently.
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Worik
Worik
@worik@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 4 months ago
@vv @strypey that is a common effect of Python

Python is terrific but it is very slow

Ok for a job control language bur people have built huge achingly slow applications out of it

Lack of backward compatibility in Python is a huge problem too.

Many apps fail when Python bumps a version

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Dr. Quadragon ❌
Dr. Quadragon ❌
@drq@mastodon.ml replied  ·  activity timestamp 4 months ago
@strypey

> How much of the server resources used by a standard Matrix homeserver install, for example, is used by the Element web client?

None? It's because it runs on a client, i.e. in a browser?

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Dr. Quadragon ❌
Dr. Quadragon ❌
@drq@mastodon.ml replied  ·  activity timestamp 4 months ago
@strypey I mean, I love to shit on Matrix just as any other guy does, but this is not how it works.
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Evan Prodromou
Evan Prodromou
@evan@cosocial.ca replied  ·  activity timestamp 4 months ago
@strypey cosign
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