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TechAltar
@Techaltar@mas.to  ·  activity timestamp last month

I recently talked with a guy who builds software for small & medium sized German insurance firms and he says almost all of their clients are working on removing US services from their tech stack due to perceiving them as highly risky. This includes cloud services, office tools, AI tools, etc. So far he said the switch is a mixed bag with some successes and some blunders, but the push is very clear.

Highly anecdotal stuff, but maybe this cut is deeper than I expected.

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Sean Bala
@seanbala@mas.to replied  ·  activity timestamp 4 weeks ago
@Techaltar I am just curious - what kind of services are easy to replace and which ones do you think would be harder to replace? What do non-American companies need to be developing?
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Billy Smith
@BillySmith@social.coop replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar

Also the SME-run systems from @coopcloud and @autonomic

https://coopcloud.tech/

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caravantravellers 🌈
@caravantraveller@social.cologne replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar

Are there small & medium sized German insurance firms? Aren't they all big?

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TechAltar
@Techaltar@mas.to replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@caravantraveller there are tons of them, yeah. Lots focus on either a local market (e.g. A specific city) or are specialized in some niche (e.g. Shipping or agriculture)
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Daniel Quinn
@danielquinn@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar but are they dropping Windows and MS Office? These days it seems damned near impossible to find a tech company willing to let me use Linux.
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Tattered
@Tattered@social.vivaldi.net replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar A little late but clearly necessary.
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LogicalErzor
@Logical_Error@fosstodon.org replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar i hope this can lead to an investment boom in the #mobilelinux space

the usa controls the only 2 mobile OSes that are in current widespread use

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elilla&, summer enjoyer travesti
@elilla@transmom.love replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar my firm literally changed my job to be migrating AWS infrastructure to EU alternatives. long term project since so much is AWS tech debt, but we who have been screaming from the rooftops for more than a decade about relying on USA infrastructure are now richly vindicated. the motivation is 100% taking all data safely away from the Amis, and the upper echelons are very serious about it—more than the fascism of the Trump administration, its flirting with Putinism is seen as a threat.

of course, they still want to run software in someone's "cloud" rather than getting us some goddamn servers, but hey if the "cloud" is not owned by billionaires from surveillance-land that's a bit less bad.

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Jered Floyd
@jered@metasocial.com replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar @cstross Yes! “Sovereign Cloud” was a thing before 47, but it is definitely accelerating (slowly; the cost to move is high). The big question is “how sovereign do you need to be?” Data in-country? Operations in-country? Support? Development? This is one of the remaining bright spots for open source.
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Charlie Stross
@cstross@wandering.shop replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@jered @Techaltar You need at a minimum CPUs that aren't potentially backdoored by the NSA. Some reading on the history of the Intel Management Engine firmare might be relevant. (Hint: it's baked into high end Intel processors, handles bus i/o transactions, and runs atop a Minix implementation, i.e. a full-blown POSIX-compatible microkernel OS.)

Sane British IT policy would start by banning Intel processors and maybe nationalizing ARM.

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Jered Floyd
@jered@metasocial.com replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@cstross @Techaltar This is one of the drivers in Chinese interest in RISC-V, and, yes, you can always license Arm.
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gloria dei
@knord@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar For sure. I work for a European company that provides support replacing a large American tech firm's software with FOSS. Interest has gone way up since January 20.
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Saupreiss #Präparat500
@Saupreiss@pfalz.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar Don't think that's universally true. most corps are still into moving things into the cloud, and of course they mean US clouds...
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Erik Ableson
@erik@mastodon.infrageeks.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar Can confirm that here in France there are similar sentiments. People have been yapping about digital sovereignty for a decade with little to no progress, but since the beginning of the year, I’ve seen lots of significant projects. Mostly in the public sector, oriented towards self-hosting primarily.

The straws that have broken are constant price upgrades to O365, Windows 11 hardware requirements and the disabling of the ICC prosecuter’s account.

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David J. Atkinson
@meltedcheese@c.im replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar As an American, I’d say divesting of services from US services is a good thing. We are witnessing an authoritarian takeover and it is moving very fast. Online services of any kind will be disrupted. Secondly, a trend like that will send a message to businesses here, and also give heart to the opposition to Trumpism. The GDPR is very good. Insist on compliance.
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Nicole Parsons
@Npars01@mstdn.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/20/larry-ellison-oracle-trump-election-challenges/

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-cia-made-larry-ellison-a-billionaire-2014-9

https://www.businessinsider.com/larry-ellison-ai-surveillance-keep-citizens-on-their-best-behavior-2024-9

https://www.theregister.com/2025/02/12/larry_ellison_wants_all_data/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2025/05/13/trump-tech-execs-riyadh/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2022/12/20/elon-musk-spotted-world-cup-final/

https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-google-hand-dissident-data-to-saudi-arabia-activists-say-2023-7

Koch launched a Silicon Valley venture capital firm in 2017.
https://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/news/2024/04/03/koch-disruptive-venture-capital-funding-ai-invest.html

https://www.axios.com/2017/12/14/koch-tries-its-hand-at-venture-capital-1513277500

https://readsludge.com/2025/07/09/billionaire-pharma-investors-fund-privatized-strike-team-at-the-fda/

#PrinceBonesaw invested in Google, Palantir, Apple, Oracle & Microsoft in 2018.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-06/google-thiel-stand-out-in-saudi-prince-s-silicon-valley-tour

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/07/heres-a-look-at-who.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-05-13/google-backs-saudi-ai-fund-as-trump-mbs-tout-new-investments

1/

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Otmar Lendl
@otmar@infosec.exchange replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar I attended a presentation by a larger US based software company pitching their product to the Austrian health sector last week. Cloud based. Our first two questions:

Q1: Can Trump shut it down with an executive order?

Q2: Can it run on premise or a national sovereign cloud?

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Mark Koek
@mkoek@mastodon.nl replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar we are in the “everybody wants to, very few know how” phase over here - but yes, the effect is real, companies and especially governments want to move to EU owned service providers instead of Amagooglesoft
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Andreas K
@yacc143@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar Nothing surprising here. The ECJ has ruled in Schrems II rather clearly that the US legal order is incompatible with the GDPR (and that is practically directly derived from EU primary law). For the time the EC and the politicians are re-enacting for the 3rd time Grimm's The Emporer's New Clothes. But the music can stop at any time, Noyb has already a complaint in national courts, it's only a question before the ECJ gets to voice their opinion yet again, and this
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Andreas K
@yacc143@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last month

time they will probably make it clear that a pretend solution is incompatible with basic EU rights (their position demands that). Crystal clear, as in no matter what the EC pretends, the national courts will have their guidance to ignore the Commission. (And many MS constitutional courts made their acceptance of the EU/EU treaties conditional upon constitutional identity → the EC is ignoring EU basic rights at their own peril.)

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Andreas K
@yacc143@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last month

And on the AI side, most US AI providers simply cannot even begin to fulfil the AI Act requirements when it comes to safety & transparency. Interestingly, Meta might be the only US AI provider that might, not by design, but by their own requirements of adjusting their moderation, has potentially the technical flexibility to adjust to the EU regulatory landscape.

Just consider ATS. The cool systems that most Fortune 500 companies use to screen CV before they even reach humans.

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Andreas K
@yacc143@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last month

In the EU, this is a discrimination suit-wave waiting to happen:
GDPR disallows automatic decisions by computers that have significant effects on humans ✅
EU Act deepens the pit by giving the user the right for a clear and easily understood argumentation why they were rejected ✅ (Something that the classical US LLM with baked in "universal global rules" safety layers generally has problems to provide)
And now comes the coup de grâce, photos on CVs.

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Andreas K
@yacc143@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last month

That's a totally MS-specific habit. In Austria, the saying goes that a good CV starts with a visit with a professional photographer. In Belgium it's frowned upon strongly.
Rejecting a CV because it has a photo or does not, especially when it comes from an EU citizen from a different EU MS, that might have different cultural standards, doesn't that sound like indirect discrimination by nationality? Something that the EU institutions strongly frown upon.

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Andreas K
@yacc143@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last month

So yes, there is a huge, let's call it "legal enforcement debt" in the EU (similar to technical debt if you want so), concerning our American friends.

And with #Trump emphasizing that the USA is not really an ally, but becoming more hostile by the day, it's rather obvious that this moratorium on enforcing EU laws against US corporations (and their EU customers) might stop at any time.

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Beardy Unix User
@quietbear@tech.lgbt replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar I’m not sure where you are but here in the Netherlands this is just taken as a baseline assumption now. In the research data space where I work, “digital sovereignty” is the phrase of 2025.
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alihan_banan
@alihan_banan@mastodon.world replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar LibreOffice for the masses 🔥🔥🔥
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Paxil
@Paxil@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar What European company has the best AI platform and chips comparable to Nvidia and TSMC, or the Chinese Cambricon.?
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Jules Enriquez
@w8l@scalie.zone replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar Anything about German insurance firms switching to Linux, out of curiosity?
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TechAltar
@Techaltar@mas.to replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@w8l That wasn't something they mentioned specifically
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Marcin Cieślak
@saper@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar @w8l I am pretty sure they use Linux, as major German banks do
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Ronan
@ronanmcd@mastodon.green replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar it makes sense. On a very small scale my business is doing.

Maybe each service on their own is fine. But they have all shown subservient attitudes. If the powers want access to data, it will be given. If the government decide to tariff or pull long standing arrangements they will. It's not a stretch that we could wake up one day with no access to large amounts of our data.

That's without looking at diverging values; gone are US promises of equality, diversity, no sustainability...

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Pootle 🏳️‍🌈💄🦋♾️🧩
@BenSpiers@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar America collectively chose Trump. Collectively, they're not to be trusted.
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TechAltar
@Techaltar@mas.to replied  ·  activity timestamp last month

The funniest example was one firm switching to Zoho mail. They said using an Indian service was way less risky than using a US one.

It's hard to describe how much goodwill towards America Trump's policies have erased.

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Vnon 🌱
@freedomforever@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar why? Is zoho mail bad in particular? Or is this some general bias against Indian software? 🤔
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M Berberich
@m_berberich@chaos.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar

I said for years that Chinese internet-services for westeners are safer then American ones. The Chinese may spy as much, but they won't taddle to the domestic secret services and police. 😁

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Administrator
@mdm@mcnamarii.town replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar Wow -- I couldn't believe this at first -- why choose Zoho over something like Protonmail?

Then I checked -- Zoho is much cheaper. ($1USD vs $4USD for similar amounts of storage).

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Bill, organizer of stuff
@wcbdata@vis.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar FEIW, we looked at Zoho, but its ties to nationalist organizations in India made us look elsewhere (Odoo + Proton, soon to be Tuta).

There are plenty of receipts, but this is a decent summary: https://www.cnbctv18.com/politics/the-politics-of-zoho-founder-sridhar-vembu-19228641.htm

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Clot
@clot27@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar lmaao
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nictakiego
@nictakiego@mastodon.com.pl replied  ·  activity timestamp last month
@Techaltar Thats hilarious
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