@ Rob Ricci @ caterpillar @ Stefan Bohacek @ Ericka Simone This is exactly the problem.

I'm on both Hubzilla and (streams) with multiple channels, and I've been on Hubzilla under various guises for longer than the vast majority of Mastodon users have been on Mastodon. I guess you can say that I know both very well.

I can tell you that the possibilities of Hubzilla's permissions system are staggering. It works on up to three levels: for the entire channel (that's "account" in Mastospeak), for individual connections (that's "followers and followed" in Mastospeak), for individual content (posts and and entire conversations, but also images and other uploaded files and documents).

For example, you can grant or deny permission to

• see your public profile (this requires OpenWebAuth magic sign-on which Mastodon has rejected)
• see your connections (this requires OpenWebAuth magic sign-on which Mastodon has rejected)
• see your public posts in your stream (this requires OpenWebAuth magic sign-on which Mastodon has rejected)
• send you their posts (this means public posts that aren't replies because replies are not posts on Hubzilla)
• like (that's "fave" in Mastospeak; you know, the star), dislike and comment on your posts
• send you DMs
• see your uploaded files (this requires OpenWebAuth magic sign-on which Mastodon has rejected, but this also extends to images and other media embedded into posts, comments and DMs)

All in all, Hubzilla has 18 such permissions, but these are the ones that matter from a Mastodon point of view. They can be granted or denied for your entire channel at seven or eight levels, and if they're denied at channel level, they can be granted for individual connections. Imagine that, on Mastodon, you could allow only certain followers to see your profile and your toots. Or you could only allow certain followed accounts to send you their toots. All of this is reality on Hubzilla right now.

Better yet: You know that you can send toots only to mentioned accounts on Mastodon. Hubzilla exceeds and improves upon this in three ways. First of all, you can send posts to individual connections. Or to a certain privacy group (from a Mastodon POV, that's a list on steroids). Or to a custom selection of individual connections and privacy groups while even being able to exclude certain other connections or privacy groups. This goes way beyond Mastodon's "mentioned = allowed to see".

But this doesn't only define who will receive your post. It also defines who is permitted to see your post.

And: The permissions of a post are inherited by the entire conversation. Comments always have the same permissions as the top post. There's no restricting the permissions in a comment, and there's no relaxing the limitations of a comment. It's impossible to pull other Fediverse users into a private conversation by mentioning them if the top post wasn't targetted at them.

Even better yet: You can allow or disallow comments on individual posts (remember that a post on Hubzilla is only a post if it starts a conversation, not if it's a reply).

On top of all this, Hubzilla's filters are both vastly more powerful than Mastodon's filters and easier to use. Mastodon requires you to set up one new filter for each word that you want filtered. It's always blocklisting. And it's always account-wide.

Hubzilla covers Mastodon's entire filter functionality with one or two text fields. You have one blocklist for the whole channel. And you have an optional extra feature named "NSFW" with its own filter list that generated individual, reader-side content warnings for you. The equivalent of defining a new filter on Mastodon is to add a new line to one of these filter lists. Want to back them up? Just copy-paste them into a text file.

But wait, there's more: Hubzilla also has a channel-wide allowlist. If you only want to see certain content in your stream, you can allowlist certain keywords.

Hubzilla even optionally has one blocklist and one allowlist per connection. Imagine you could filter individual followed accounts on Mastodon.

Hubzilla's filter lists support regular expressions. There is also a "filter syntax" that lets you filter by whether a message is a top post or not, whether a message is public or private, whether it's a repeat (that's "boost" in Mastospeak or "retoot" for those of you who still have Twitter on the brain). The filter syntax even lets you use Boolean operators.

(streams) and Forte are similar. Their permissions are somewhat different (you don't need permissions for wikis and websites if you don't have wikis and websites). The permissions system is vastly easier to use because it's no longer template-based. You can simply switch permissions on and off for your channel as well as for connections. And you can choose to have even more options for reply control.

Again, all this exists in the Fediverse right now. And most of it has existed for longer than Mastodon. Some of this dates back to the earliest days of Friendica in May, 2010.

Unfortunately, next to nobody knows.

For most Mastodon features, the features that Mastodon has are the features that the Fediverse has. If Mastodon doesn't have it, the Fediverse doesn't. Not only is Mastodon the default, but there's nothing that strays from this default. That's why Mastodon users keep wishing for "the Fediverse" to introduce features which Friendica has had for almost 16 years already. Or which Hubzilla has had for over a decade.

In addition, probably not even 10% of all Mastodon users have ever heard of Hubzilla. Probably not even 1% of all Mastodon users know what Hubzilla can do. And even only the existence of (streams) and Forte is almost entirely unknown outside of (streams) and Forte themselves and Hubzilla.

# Long # LongPost # CWLong # CWLongPost # FediMeta # FediverseMeta # CWFediMeta # CWFediverseMeta # Fediverse # CW # CWs # CWMeta # ContentWarning # ContentWarnings # ContentWarningMeta # Hubzilla # Streams # (streams) # Forte # Permission # Permissions # ReplyControl # ReplyControls # Filter # Filters # MastodonCentricism # MastodonNormativity

@ Sascha Pallenberg 🇹🇼 ♻️ ⚡ Aus dem Fediverse wird an vorderster Front überall nur Mastodon empfohlen. Sonst nichts. Man wird sich sehr weit durchklicken müssen, um auch nur Pleroma als Zweitalternative für 𝕏 zu finden.

Für Nicht-Mastodon-Nutzer, denen die allgegenwärtige Mastodon-Zentrizität und Mastodon-Normativität und das völlige Ignorieren odar gar absichtliche Totschweigen des übrigen Fediverse schon länger gegen den Strich geht, sieht es so aus, als würde genau das hier wieder passieren. Dabei sind die meisten Microblogging-Serveranwendungen im Fediverse Mastodon haushoch überlegen.

Natürlich kann man jetzt sagen, daß es beim Digital Independence Day darum geht, europäische Alternativen zu finden und die meisten anderen Fediverse-Serveranwendungen eben nicht in Europa entwickelt werden.

Aber: Nicht nur Mastodon wird in Europa entwickelt. Auch nicht nur Mastodon und Pleroma.

Friendica wurde zwar von einer Privatperson in Australien erfunden, ist aber seit 2011 in deutscher Hand. Einzig die Tatsache, daß Friendica weiterhin beharrlich den Code bei GitHub in den USA hostet, könnte zur Disqualifikation reichen. Aber auch Mastodons Code liegt bei GitHub.

Hubzilla stammt ursprünglich vom selben Australier und aus derselben Softwarefamilie. Aber seit 2018 ist es in den Händen eines deutschen Chefentwicklers, der als Vize einen Norweger hat. Außerdem liegt der Code bei Framagit in Frankreich.

Beide sind also sehr wohl europäische Projekte. Noch dazu sind beide älter als Mastodon und trotzdem mit Mastodon verbunden. Aber kurioserweise werden sie im Rahmen des Digital Independence Day nirgendwo erwähnt. Direkte Alternativen zu Facebook werden gar überhaupt nicht genannt.

All dies paßt wunderbar zusammen mit der allgemeinen medialen Darstellung und befeuert sie sogar noch weiter: Entweder ist das Fediverse gleich Mastodon. Oder es gibt kein Fediverse, nur Mastodon. So oder so wird Mastodon fälschlicherweise dargestellt als a) das einzige seiner Art und b) in sich geschlossenes Netzwerk.

Ich kenne genügend Leute, die sich genau daran sehr stören und das auch zum Ausdruck bringen.

Nur daran stören sich dann wiederum diejenigen, die selbst praktisch oder tatsächlich nur Mastodon kennen und Mastodon ansehen als Standard, Goldstandard oder tatsächlich das ganze Fediverse, die auf jeden Fall aber so Sachen wie Misskey, Pleroma, Friendica und deren jeweilige Nachfahren ansehen als böse, rücksichtslose, kulturlose, unerwünschte Eindringlinge in ihrem kuscheligen Mastodon-Fediverse.

Übrigens dient ein Großteil meiner Hashtags dazu, Filter auszulösen inklusive dem automatischen Erzeugen individueller leserseitiger CWs. Gerade letztere sind da, wo ich bin, schon länger technisch möglich und Teil der Kultur, als es Mastodon überhaupt gibt. Und obwohl Mastodon sie auch hat, sind sie da nie Teil der Kultur geworden, weil 𝕏 sie nicht hat und auch Mastodon sie erst im Oktober 2022 eingeführt hat.

CC: @ Kim Mi @ crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts

# Long # LongPost # CWLong # CWLongPost # LangerPost # CWLangerPost # FediMeta # FediverseMeta # CWFediMeta # CWFediverseMeta # CW # CWs # CWMeta # ContentWarning # ContentWarnings # ContentWarningMeta # Fediverse # NichtNurMastodon # Friendica # Hubzilla # MastodonKultur # MastodonZentrizität # MastodonNormativität # DIDay # DigitalIndependenceDay