Discussion
:linux: #LinuxPhones accounts to follow:
LINUX PHONE MAKERS
@jolla - Independent Linux phone makers, SailfishOS devs
@pine64 - Low-price Linux phones & other devices
@volla - Phones with preinstalled Ubuntu Touch
DISTROS & INTERFACES
@nemomobile - Linux phone distro
@postmarketOS - Linux distribution for phones, based on Alpine
@mobian - Debian Linux for phones
@ubports - Ubuntu Touch for phones
@phosh - FOSS interface for Linux phones
APPS
@linuxphoneapps - App directory for Linux phones
@FediFollows @jolla @pine64 @volla @postmarketOS @mobian @ubports @phosh @linuxphoneapps @nemomobile Also you forgot the @furilabs furiphone.
The fact grahpene is trying to talk privacy when they just "sandbox" google, but still make you sign in so you still need a google just because they refuse to use micro g.
Also using the google tensor chips and brag about them, when they very likely chat with google all day about your device.
@FediFollows For info: the Linux Mobile website https://linmob.net/ uses the term "GNU-like Mobile Linux" – presumably to avoid the "Ah, but Android is Linux too" trap. @linmob
@FediFollows @mechasystems keep insisting what they're building is not a phone. we shall see.
Totally open to being corrected, but my understanding is GrapheneOS is more about Android than Linux? It seems more centred around running Android software?
(I know technically Android is Linux-based, but in effect they are two different platforms?)
@FediFollows Android is definitely Linux. If you install Termux, you get command-line access to the existing Linux OS (not an emulator), together with a package manager. I routinely have run vim, emacs, python, git, ssh, etc on my Android devices (even gcc).
@FediFollows There has been some confusion in this thread between Linux (kernel layer) and POSIX (command/shell layer). The Linux kernel doesn't depend on POSIX, and POSIX doesn't need the Linux kernel.
If every time someone writes "Android isn't Linux" we translate it to "Android isn't POSIX," I think there would be nearly-universal agreement. The Android Linux distros need add-ons like Termux to get even close to POSIX compliance.
The (marketing) problem is that "Linux" is a well-known term while "POSIX" is not. That's probably what the attempted gatekeeping in this thread is about.
@david_megginson @SpaceLifeForm @GrapheneOS
"attempted gatekeeping "
I don't think it is useful to call it that as it suggests some kind of deliberate nasty stuff going on?
Surely it's not gatekeeping to use common (but technically incorrect) terms when describing technology?
For example, it's normal to use the word "computer" to only mean desktops and laptops in everyday speech, even though the technical dictionary definition would also apply to smartwatches, phones, consoles etc.
@FediFollows @SpaceLifeForm @GrapheneOS what is a Linux distribution then?
If I take a Linux kernel, run JVM on top and create a "framework" to provide my own way to deal with app security, aisolation, memory, etc, and make it installable: is that a Linux distribution?
@FediFollows @SpaceLifeForm GrapheneOS is a Linux distribution. It's incorrect to say otherwise. Linux is a kernel and doesn't mean systemd. You don't say Linux when you mean GNU hurd or FreeBSD. Bringing glibc and systemd to mobile is not bringing Linux to mobile.
Based on the fact that one of the operating systems you've listed uses musl rather than glibc, the correct terminology to use would be systemd phones. Bringing systemd to mobile is not the same as bringing Linux to mobile.
@GrapheneOS
But this way **every** android phone is linux phone, so we are loosing category.
So IMO grapheneOS (I'm, using gOS BTW 😉 ) is brillant android distribution. And yes every android has linux kernel somwhere in background.
@FediFollows @jolla @pine64 @volla @postmarketOS @mobian @ubports @phosh @linuxphoneapps @nemomobile This is exciting, I wish these projects the best of luck!
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