Discussion · bonfire.cafe

The first few Ultimate Fighting Championships were funny, because it was just a bunch of tough guys getting beat up by Jiu-Jitsu black belts. Because the tough guys couldn't accept that their tough guy training was not a winning strategy. 🤷🏿‍♂️

Eventually they figured it out. Now everyone can fight. This is like that, but for EVs.

https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/dacia-challenges-low-cost-chinese-evs-with-prototype-15000-euro-mini-car-2025-10-06/

I said what I said 10 years ago, and I didn't have to take anything back. Still standing on my words.

The battle for the EV future, is happening below $20,000 retail. Tesla poses no threat to BYD. The bigger threat is from smaller, cheaper, cars at higher quality.

E-bikes are more of a threat.

Misuse Case

@MisuseCase@twit.social replied · 5 days ago

@mekkaokereke I saw something the other day about e-bikes outselling electric cars in the U.S. but I can’t remember where I saw it.

Luke Kanies

@lkanies@hachyderm.io replied · 5 days ago

@mekkaokereke when — not if — the US finally allows Chinese EVs to be sold directly here again, it will destroy our local car economy, far more than when Japanese cars showed up in the 70s.

Our whole country is in denial. And it will be catastrophic when the truth arrives.

mekka okereke :verified:

@mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io replied · 5 days ago

@lkanies

Completely untrue.

BYD already makes cheap Chinese EV buses and trucks in California and in China. The California factory is a union factory.

Tesla makes expensive EV cars in California and in China. Tesla factories in the US are not union factories.

We need to stop pretending that there is something magically positive for US workers about Tesla EVs.

Luke Kanies

@lkanies@hachyderm.io replied · 5 days ago

@mekkaokereke sorry, I didn’t mean anything at all about teslas.

I was more referring to our other car companies, who are doubling down on big gas vehicles, even if buyers don’t really want them. Those are the ones who will get slaughtered when we can buy small, cheap electric cars.

Just like how in the 70s American car makers kept building bigger cars that drank more fuel, then the Japanese makers showed up and gave people what they wanted, and it took decades for US car making to recover

mekka okereke :verified:

@mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io replied · 5 days ago

@lkanies

Again, I disagree. Net employment will go *up*, even among car company employees. Because new car companies that are pretty cool like Rivian, will benefit from the increase in charging infrastructure that accompanies higher EV adoption.

And existing car companies will do Joint Ventures with newer import companies to take advantage of the untapped market.

And yes, some old companies will die. No one should care. Companies aren't people.

Better companies will survive. Businesses move at a faster pace than they did in the 70s. No one is taking decades to adapt.

I don't get nostalgic for companies like coal mines or gasoline only car manufacturers. They can adapt or sink into the past. Coal mines should call themselves energy companies and switch to renewables. Gas car companies should call themselves transportation companies and switch to low cost EVs.

😀🚲

@enobacon@urbanists.social replied · 5 days ago

@lkanies @mekkaokereke we have a lot of cars that work fine for longer trips and don't need to be replaced for a decade or more, but half of all car trips are less than 3 miles. Now how about an EV which can carry a couple people or a few kids, is easier to park, great for short trips, and costs less than $5k? We could even build them in the states. #eBikes #CargoBikes #LegalizeBikes

koehntopp ~ :

@koehntopp@infosec.exchange replied · 5 days ago

@mekkaokereke
In Europe, Dacia already sells the 'Spring', which goes for below EUR 15.000,-- retail with 200+ km range

https://www.dacia.de/hybrid-und-elektromodelle/spring-stadtauto.html

You have to hit a sweet spot between range and charging speed while it's still somewhat difficult for people in cities and rented apartments to find a charger.

But yes, 20k is where the fight for the market will be won.

Das Dacia Spring 4-Sitzer Stadtauto – das exklusive Elektroauto für alle

Entdecken Sie den Dacia Spring, das geräumige Elektroauto für die City. Entdecken Sie alle Funktionen, einschließlich Multimediasysteme, Touchscreen und YouClip-Befestigung!

mekka okereke :verified:

@mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io replied · 5 days ago

Making a cheap car is not hard. Just remove stuff.🤷🏿‍♂️

Making a safe car is not hard. Making a convenient car that people want is not hard. Making a car with luxuries and amenities, is not hard.

Making a cheap, safe, convenient car that people want, with luxuries and amenities? Is super hard.

(For my non-neurotypical friends: first of all, I love you! Second, the phrase "X is not hard, Y is hard!" is a phrase used by lots of people of all backgrounds, but is very common among West Africans and Black folk in the US 🙋🏿‍♂️. The "X is not hard" part is not literal. Usually the X part is very difficult as well. Making any production car at all, is very hard. The phrase is an emphasis on the relative difficulty of the Y part. )

Climate Jenny 2.1

@ClimateJenny@biodiversity.social replied · 4 days ago

@mekkaokereke There are a few of us still out here who never really accepted electric car windows as a good idea, though. I’d buy that car in a flash if it could be sold in the US. Guess who’s on the waitlist for the Slate?

Thanks for the extra clarifications for the literal-minded among us. 😉

mekka okereke :verified:

@mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io replied · 4 days ago

@ClimateJenny

♥️

PUMIQUXT */3

@pumiquxt@sfba.social replied · 4 days ago

@mekkaokereke

i rented a chevy bolt and loved it. if i were to buy an EV (in the US), i'd look at this first

Emmy, Calamity from the Skies

@sillyCoelophysis@hachyderm.io replied · 5 days ago

@mekkaokereke I kinda figured what you were saying, but I appreciate the edit. Thank you! The explanation of how the phrase works is incredibly helpful.

PG19582🇺🇸🇹🇩🇺🇦🇵🇸

@PG19582@mastodon.social replied · 5 days ago

@mekkaokereke I have often wondered why someone hasn't figured out a way for an EV to utilize the four rotating wheels to generate power to recharge the batteries as you drive.

Ben Rosengart

@fivetonsflax@tilde.zone replied · 5 days ago

@PG19582 @mekkaokereke I have great news for you. 😄 I drive a seven year old low end BMW that recharges the battery when braking or going downhill. There are e-bikes which do this as well.

Chris Espinosa

@Cdespinosa@mastodon.social replied · 5 days ago

@fivetonsflax @PG19582 @mekkaokereke In fact, I was driving a production Honda EV Plus with this capability way back in 1997.

Now to recharge the battery while under power, and not braking or coasting downhill? You’ll have to talk to the second law of thermodynamics about that.

mjt

@mjt@mastodon.online replied · 5 days ago

@Cdespinosa @fivetonsflax @PG19582 @mekkaokereke Just to amplify the implied point of all these responses, including the 2nd law of thermodynamics: you can’t get more power out of a system than you put into it. If only! That’d give rise to infinity machines and perpetual motion. Energy is created using other energy, and the sum of all energy used minus the energy generated has to be zero. Regenerative braking “conserves” used energy by reclaiming it from some aspects of the system.

#Physics

Imran Nazar ~ عمران نزر

@Two9A@hachyderm.io replied · 5 days ago

@PG19582 @mekkaokereke Can't tell if facetious, but: regenerative braking (using the motion of the car to recharge the battery, slowing it down as a side-effect) has been a thing since at least the first Nissan Leaf fifteen years ago.

Kat Marchán 🐈

@zkat@toot.cat replied · 5 days ago

@mekkaokereke my meta has been obsessed with the Slate truck and we went to see it in person and it's genuinely so cute and I'm obsessed too.

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