Discussion · bonfire.cafe

It's been more than a year since I gave up on Google Search (I switched to Kagi.com and never looked back). I don't miss it. It had gotten terrible. It's gotten worse since, thanks to AI (of course):

https://pluralistic.net/2024/04/04/teach-me-how-to-shruggie/#kagi

If you'd like an essay-formatted version of this thread to read or share, here's a link to it on pluralistic.net, my surveillance-free, ad-free, tracker-free blog:

https://pluralistic.net/2025/07/15/inhuman-gigapede/#coprophagic-ai

A smoggy cityscape. In the foreground is a partially open can of Spam, whose label has been pixelated. The glistening spam atop the can has been overlaid with the original Google homepage. In the background looms the glaring red eye of HAL 9000 from Kubrick's '2001: A Space Odyssey.'

Image:
Cryteria (modified)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:HAL9000.svg

CC BY 3.0
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/deed.en

--

Radek Kołakowski (modified)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Warszawski_smog_(22798350941).jpg

CC BY 2.0
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/deed.en — A smoggy cityscape. In the foreground is a partially open can of Spam, whose label has been pixelated. The glistening spam atop the can has been overlaid with the original Google homepage. In the background looms the glaring red eye of HAL 9000 from Kubrick's '2001: A Space Odyssey.' Image: Cryteria (modified) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:HAL9000.svg CC BY 3.0 https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/deed.en -- Radek Kołakowski (modified) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Warszawski_smog_(22798350941).jpg CC BY 2.0 https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/deed.en

Alyn

@alyn@wandering.shop · 2 days ago

@pluralistic
Got upset enough that I now run a small instance of #searxng which does a similar thing to #Kagi (searches across multiple services) but without its own index - a metasearch engine essentially.
Strips out ads and AI responses and was moderately useful a little while ago for ascertaining that one service had heavily de-prioritised a blog post - the interface indicates which services provided which results.

Edward

@yugthebug@mastodon.social · 2 days ago

@pluralistic seems pretty cool, unfortunately I'm broke so I just use userscripts to block sponsored results on Google and refine my searches with lots of parameters

rainynight65

@rainynight65@mastodon.social · 2 days ago

@pluralistic How much of what you pay for Kagi goes to their AI stuff? They quite prominently push their Kagi Assistant. Can that be turned off or easily ignored?

Cory Doctorow

@pluralistic@mamot.fr · 2 days ago

@rainynight65 I have never used it.

Gilly Gunson

@giflian@techhub.social · 2 days ago

@pluralistic I looked at Kagi a while back and got turned off by the extensive advertising of their AI functionality on their main page. I'm trying to avoid AI tooling as much as possible and already use the &utm google shortcut (with still-shitty results, but no AI)

freediverx

@freediverx@mastodon.social · 2 days ago

@giflian @pluralistic
I use Kagi without any ai bullshit. It’s optional.

Blade :sonic:

@blade@tkz.one · yesterday

@freediverx @giflian @pluralistic I've heard good things about Kagi but haven't looked into it. Currently using Qwant. Would Kagi offer a trial period, by any chance? 👀

Carlos

@iscarlosmolero@mastodon.social · 3 days ago

@pluralistic @kagihq Kagi looks awesome, but the fact that you need an account puts me off.

Cory Doctorow

@pluralistic@mamot.fr · 2 days ago

@iscarlosmolero @kagihq It's anonymous (and they use privacy pass to let you login without identifying yourself)

Carlos

@iscarlosmolero@mastodon.social · 2 days ago

@pluralistic @kagihq How can it possibly be anonymous if they require you to create an account?

If you have an account at any time they can decide to link your search data and such to you.

I don't know how PrivacyPass works, I will look into it.

Cory Doctorow

@pluralistic@mamot.fr · 2 days ago

@iscarlosmolero @kagihq

You create the account.

They produce a zero-knowledge token that cryptographically proves that you are an account holder without identifying you.

Your browser provides that token when you interact with the server.

It's an IETF standard for anonymous authorization tokens:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/privacypass/about/

Carlos

@iscarlosmolero@mastodon.social · 2 days ago

@pluralistic @kagihq Ok, now I get your point.

I thought we were talking about the typical situation where an organization says "trust me bro" and people do it.

I know the standard, I will try Kagi, thank you very much!

Sunny

@Sunny@universeodon.com · 3 days ago

@pluralistic

Who would do that to a perfectly good can of Spam! Tell me its photoshopped!

I also quit Google Search a couple years ago, and celebrate every time I"m reminded!

Cory Doctorow

@pluralistic@mamot.fr · 3 days ago

@Sunny Edited in the Gimp.

skedarwarrior

@skedarwarrior@techhub.social · 3 days ago

@pluralistic Spam is good if you want to A: throw up
or B: gag
or C: be annoyed which applies here directly.

Laurens 🐐

@ElBeeToots@mastodon.social · 3 days ago

@skedarwarrior @pluralistic Egg and bacon; egg, sausage and bacon; egg and Spam; egg, bacon and Spam; egg, bacon, sausage and Spam; Spam, Spam, Spam, egg, Spam, Spam and Spam; or lobster thermidore aux crevettes with a Mornay sauce, a fried egg on top and Spam.