@HolosSocial @fediversereport @HolosDiscover is thisnopt-in or opt-out? 
Discussion
Loading...
Discussion
Holos is a very nice project, congratulations. Note that wrt Holos-Discover, the "How it works" does not explain the search mechanism, and the repo link gives a 404.
Regarding Holos-App the docs mention that it implements a "full ActivityPub server", but it is unclear whether you mean "a full server" (S2S) or the "ActivityPub conformant Federated Server" specification profile, which in a quick peek is not what Holos-App is.. looks like?
@aschrijver
We shut down the service. See https://toot.fedilab.app/@apps/116051469228002847
@HolosSocial @HolosDiscover@discover.holos.social It's not "opt-in" to assume that everyone who has allowed indexing is opting in to your specific scraper.This is unacceptable.
@EveHasWords
You're right to raise this concern. We've already shut down the service, deleted all indexed data, and removed the source code.
I do not want even the smallest bit of that
cc @HolosDiscover@discover.holos.social @fediversereport
@FinchHaven
Totally understood. Blocking is one of the supported opt-out methods. Your content has been removed from our index and you won't be contacted again.
Unlike crawlers, we are fully transparent and respect multiple consent signals before indexing anything. We also explain on our "How it works" page how to stop indexation depending on your Fediverse software. But keep in mind that these settings only work with services that respect them, crawlers simply ignore them.
"Unlike crawlers, we are fully transparent and respect multiple consent signals before indexing anything.
We also explain on our "How it works" page how to stop indexation depending on your Fediverse software."
But here's the core point:
"Your content has been removed from our index and you won't be contacted again."
So you've --> already <-- "scraped my content" without my knowledge or permission and only because -- somehow -- I've managed to be aware of your project at all am I able to defend myself against being scraped by your bot
Anyone who has never heard of you is by definition defenseless against what you're doing
Every single bright-eyed young coder who has done exactly the same thing -- scraping Mastodon content -- has exactly the same answer since I first got on in very early November 2022
"Oh... you found out we've scraped your data... OK... we'll delete it. And maybe we won't do it again."
Point is, people are sick of that shit and always have been
@FinchHaven
We don't scrape. We send a standard ActivityPub Follow, visible in your followers list like any other account. The "indexable" setting exists precisely for this use case.
With indexable enabled, Google already indexes your public posts and keeps deleted content cached for days. We remove everything instantly via ActivityPub.
We're not a crawler. We're a federation participant playing by the rules.
@fediversereport
So people need to have detailed ActivityPub knowledge to detect and protect themselves against your operation
And what about people who follow me already and join your little project
Do I get any sort of ActivityPub Follow notification about second-hand scraping of people I interact with
Oh: and by the way
I'll use the term 'scraping' if I choose
Letting you choose the language you want to frame your side of the conversation changes nothing about the reality of what you're doing
@FinchHaven
We respect your position. Your content has been removed and you're permanently excluded from our index.
For anyone interested in how it actually works, the source code is public: https://codeberg.org/tom79/Holos-Discover
@fediversereport
1 more replies (not shown)
@OctaviaConAmore
It's consent-based. We only follow accounts that have "indexable" enabled, are not locked, and don't have #nobot in their bio. If any of these conditions isn't met, we won't follow or index anything. Only public posts are indexed.
@fediversereport
@HolosSocial @fediversereport ok, so it's still opt-out, then 
thanks for being transparent, ar least 
@OctaviaConAmore
You're right that "indexable" is enabled by default on many instances, and we understand the concern. But this setting already has consequences beyond us: with indexable enabled, search engines like Google can index your public posts and may keep them cached for days or weeks even after deletion.
With Holos Discover, deletions and edits are reflected instantly through ActivityPub activities. And we're visible as a follower you can block at any time.
@fediversereport
@HolosSocial better than the current low bar is definitely better, I suppose 
that said, it's noticeable and telling that you seem to not be proudly starting it's opt-out as a selling point 
@OctaviaConAmore
You're right, we don't hide it. The "indexable" setting is enabled by default on most instances, which makes it de facto opt-out. We wish it weren't the default, but that's an instance-level decision, not ours.
Being 100% ActivityPub means we detect any profile change instantly. If indexable is turned off, everything is removed immediately. That's the advantage of being fully ActivityPub-native: we follow the decisions made by Fediverse developers.