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Neil Brown
@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

I erred in selecting Android as my mobile device platform.

That's the nub of it.

The haunting spectre of Google looms closer.

Remedying my error is going to be tough. It will require significant compromise on my part. For some things, I just don't have an answer.

But to stay with it any longer, without focussing on the escape plan, feels foolish.

Anyway, happy Saturday.

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Elias
@eliasr@social.librem.one replied  ·  activity timestamp 23 hours ago

@neil check out @linmob
https://linmob.net/

I'm using a #Librem5 myself, running #pureos which is based on #debian -- I'm not going back to either Android or iOS. Alternatives do exist, and they are getting better all the time!

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Neil Brown
@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk replied  ·  activity timestamp 18 hours ago

@eliasr @linmob

I've read LinMob for ages :)

I've been in the newsletter a handful of times!

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Ivor Hewitt
@ivor@social.ivor.org replied  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

@neil I'm determined to move off android before the end of the year. It's on my (very long) to-do list

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penguin42
@penguin42@mastodon.org.uk replied  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

@neil I don't think it was an error; alternatives haven't been particularly useable or available in the past.

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Neil Brown
@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk replied  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

@penguin42 True enough, sadly.

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Adam Dalliance
@pre@boing.world replied  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

@neil Yeah. I tried updating Mobian on my Pinephone against last week, see if it was ready yet. Trouble is the answer seems to be "not really" still 😬 . Though Phosh is actually quite nice. Perhaps it'd work better on a faster phone.

Perhaps I should try installing Graphine.

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Neil
@troglet@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

@neil Same. I'm hoping the Mecha Comet becomes something usable and I can just do away with normal phone hardware and software.

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Rupert Reynolds
@RupertReynolds@hachyderm.io replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil Forgive me if I'm out of date, but last time I looked there were 2 Androids:

1.Open source, Gargoyle-free Android, able to use F-droid for FOSS apps, unless you enGargoyle it to get Play for more apps.

2. Fully Gargoyled, snooping, advert city Android that we get on most big brand phones.

So, the trick is to buy a phone you can load any OS you choose onto.

Planet Computers Gemini and the like are starting to look better and better, dual-booting Linux.

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Ken Milmore
@kbm0@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil I managed to avoid having a smartphone up until a couple of years ago. I use public transport a lot, and find it invaluable to be able to get live travel information. In a pinch, I could make do with a Linux device that has a usable web browser and can do phone/SMS, but it would be good to keep some of the live travel apps. So I'm hoping someone will find a viable solution before Goggle pull the carpet out from under me next September. Watching with interest! 🙂

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Tony Hoyle
@tony@toot.hoyle.me.uk replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil Google used to be the dev friendly platform.. you could download android studio and get something on the app store within a couple of hours.. no subscriptions, certificates all generated locally..

I was a no brainer to select then.

Nowadays getting an app uploaded takes a day and risks the spanish inquisition getting involved, you can't even start until you're 'verified' (via a very broken ID process, hence giving up on developing for android at least for personal projects).

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Paul
@pwaring@social.xk7.net replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil I feel the same way - I have critical apps that are only available via F-Droid but also critical apps that will only work on non-rooted phones.

I don't know how I can resolve this, other than having two phones. PostmarketOS is nice but far too limited for my use case.

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Fat_Farang
@Fat_Farang@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil I've concluded that my short term plan is to get a Harmony NextOS phone ASAP. I'd rather give my info to the Chinese than to Google or 5-Eyes.

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SamuelJohnson
@samueljohnson@mstdn.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil Agree, but I switched from Apple to have a wider choice of hardware after 1st version of iPhone. Gave Google some feedback after last Android update but it will be ignored. I said my current phone (Pixel7) would likely be my last Android phone (bc AI & other BS). I carry an old 8" tablet and use phone as a hotspot; don't use phone that much. A feature phone w hotspot would suit. HarmonyOS or Linux phone also possible. Not keen on buying new Pixel in hope GrapheneOS won't get killed.

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Joshua Aspinall
@joshaspinall@mstdn.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil I'm having similar thoughts and feelings at the moment. I dusted off my pmOS-capable device collection and have been trying them out again. Daily driveability is getting closer, but isn't quite there (for me).

The main killer for me is battery life as I tend to be away from power during the day.

Happy to discuss, and will keeping an eye on what you get up to, as ever. ablobcatgooglymlemjumping

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Simon Greenwood
@simon@gotosocial.grnwds.uk replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil I'm testing phones for an alternative at the moment as my Nokia X30 will go out of support in January (hopefully HMD will unlock it). I've got a couple of cheap phones that will run phone-based Linuxes or Ubuntu Touch so I will give them a try as well as e/OS and degoogled Lineage.

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El Perro Negro
@elperronegro@shmg.online replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil I am moving forward with PostmatketOS in the hope that when the Google guillotine comes crashing down a lot of very pissed off developers will be making fast inroads into the OS

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Neil Brown
@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

I am exploring postmarketOS as a phone-type device alternative.

I am not willing to make the compromises required to do without a phone entirely, or to use a non-smartphone with a laptop etc.

(I am already using GrapheneOS, but this is not enough.)

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Jeff Martin
@cuchaz@gladtech.social replied  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

@neil What's lacking in GrapheneOS?

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Neil Brown
@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk replied  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

@cuchaz I am looking for a non-Android option.

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Jeff Martin
@cuchaz@gladtech.social replied  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

@neil are there specific threats that come from Android itself? Specifically, Graphene's cleaned-up version of Android? Or are you just looking to try something new. Asking in case there's something scary you know that I don't.

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Neil Brown
@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk replied  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

@cuchaz I'm not happy with Google's direction of travel, particularly (well, most recently) around developer registration requirements.

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Jeff Martin
@cuchaz@gladtech.social replied  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

@neil ah, yes. The app store. I totally get it now.

I wonder if distributions like GrapheneOS can preserve installation freedom somehow, over Google's objections, or we really just need to abandon Android entirely as unsalvagable.

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Nick
@ratcatcher@beige.party replied  ·  activity timestamp yesterday

@neil

I'm interested in your "journey" because my aims are similar.

It would be great to be able to buy a fully functional smartphone off the shelf that is compatible with Android apps but not connected to Google.

Alas, as you've said elsewhere, that's not currently possible and I'm not sure I can be bothered to (though ultimately I may forced to) carry two phones with the functions I need split between them.

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Mike Cox
@mikecox@mastodon.iow.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil I only really need a smartphone in order to run banking apps as everything else is achievable on a web browser.
Trouble is the banking apps only seem to run on iis or android. They also love having a duopoly and think it's ok

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Martin Hamilton
@m@martinh.net replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil I was instantly sold on PostmarketOS when I realised that I could have duck facts on my home screen (under SXMO) with a simple one line shell script... https://martinh.net/@m/114920751495302303

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𝔸𝕟𝕔𝕚𝕖𝕟𝕥 𝕊𝕠𝕦𝕟𝕕𝕤 🔉
@ancientsounds@mastodonapp.uk replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil
I can recommend Ubuntu Touch, having used it on my phones for 10 years now. Easily flashed onto many Android devices, for a de-Googled phone that works

#UbuntuTouch

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iko
@iko@mastodon.iko.soy replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil every time I think about switching to postmarketOS I come to the conclusion that all the apps it has are poorly adapted for a phone and I would likely need to write a lot of software myself. At that point I'm probably better off sticking to GrapheneOS and restricting myself FOSS.

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iko
@iko@mastodon.iko.soy replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil it's a shame they don't support newer devices very well...

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Neil Brown
@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@iko Yes, but if I'm not going to help port it to newer devices, I can't really grumble :)

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matthewcroughan
@matthewcroughan@social.defenestrate.it replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

What is it that you are losing when you take the "non-smartphone" approach? Do you require some specific application? If so, likelihood is that won't work when you use something that isn't Android or iOS anyway.

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Sarah Dal
@sarahdalgulls@ecoevo.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil I was looking at https://e.foundation/e-os/ last night too, although I don't know much about it

https://e.foundation

/e/OS

ECOSYSTEMKEY FEATURESGET /E/OSNEED HELP /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled”, mobile ecosystem /e/OS is an open-source mobile operating system paired with carefully selected applications. They form a privacy-enabled internal system for your smartphone. And it’s not just claims: open-source means auditable privacy. /e/OS has received academic recognition from researchers at…
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Neil Brown
@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@sarahdalgulls It is Android :(

Better than stock Android, but still suffers from being Android - although my pick of the non-Google Androids is GrapheneOS.

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David Penfold :verified:
@davep@infosec.exchange replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil @sarahdalgulls Suffers in what way? Just curious (I too have GrapheneOS on one of my Pixels).

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Sarah Dal
@sarahdalgulls@ecoevo.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil ahh I see the difference now, sorry I misunderstood

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Neil Brown
@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@sarahdalgulls The complexity is not your fault at all!

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Mike Cox
@mikecox@mastodon.iow.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil I'm in the same position, Neil. I chose android as the lesser of two evils but now that's changed and there's little alternative.
The world seems to be happy with being told what they can and cannot do.

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Aaron
@aaron@chirp.zadzmo.org replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil Your options are:

1) Google
2) Apple

Both of those are highly restrictive, but also there's

3) Wilderness

I've been option 3 for a decade now. It's been hard. Very hard. I basically live my life telling everyone I don't have a smart phone, even though I do. Because that's effectively the result.

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Neil
@neil_h@mastodon.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil when my current phone becomes unusable due to hardware decay or whatever, I'm going to move away from Google.

Either it will be something with Murena eOS (if that has managed to stay free of Google interference), or I'll reactivate my old Razr or get a non-smart phone. And yes, the latter two will mean a commitment to no social media, no GPS navigation, no search-for-nearest hardware store while mobile...

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Walter van Holst
@whvholst@eupolicy.social replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil We erred collectively in allowing this duopoly to happen. Massive failure of public policy. So don't blame yourself overly much for choosing one side of the duopoly since the other is not much less problematic.

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Wurzelmann
@wurzelmann@mastodon.wurzelmann.at replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil You're using GrapheneOS as well currently, right? What would be an acceptable alternative for you?

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Neil Brown
@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@wurzelmann I am exploring postmarketOS.

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Wurzelmann
@wurzelmann@mastodon.wurzelmann.at replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil I see. Good luck with that, I never could warm up to it

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