Discussion
I erred in selecting Android as my mobile device platform.
That's the nub of it.
The haunting spectre of Google looms closer.
Remedying my error is going to be tough. It will require significant compromise on my part. For some things, I just don't have an answer.
But to stay with it any longer, without focussing on the escape plan, feels foolish.
Anyway, happy Saturday.
@neil I'm determined to move off android before the end of the year. It's on my (very long) to-do list
@neil I don't think it was an error; alternatives haven't been particularly useable or available in the past.
@neil Yeah. I tried updating Mobian on my Pinephone against last week, see if it was ready yet. Trouble is the answer seems to be "not really" still 😬 . Though Phosh is actually quite nice. Perhaps it'd work better on a faster phone.
Perhaps I should try installing Graphine.
@neil Same. I'm hoping the Mecha Comet becomes something usable and I can just do away with normal phone hardware and software.
@neil Forgive me if I'm out of date, but last time I looked there were 2 Androids:
1.Open source, Gargoyle-free Android, able to use F-droid for FOSS apps, unless you enGargoyle it to get Play for more apps.
2. Fully Gargoyled, snooping, advert city Android that we get on most big brand phones.
So, the trick is to buy a phone you can load any OS you choose onto.
Planet Computers Gemini and the like are starting to look better and better, dual-booting Linux.
@neil I managed to avoid having a smartphone up until a couple of years ago. I use public transport a lot, and find it invaluable to be able to get live travel information. In a pinch, I could make do with a Linux device that has a usable web browser and can do phone/SMS, but it would be good to keep some of the live travel apps. So I'm hoping someone will find a viable solution before Goggle pull the carpet out from under me next September. Watching with interest! 🙂
@neil Google used to be the dev friendly platform.. you could download android studio and get something on the app store within a couple of hours.. no subscriptions, certificates all generated locally..
I was a no brainer to select then.
Nowadays getting an app uploaded takes a day and risks the spanish inquisition getting involved, you can't even start until you're 'verified' (via a very broken ID process, hence giving up on developing for android at least for personal projects).
@neil I feel the same way - I have critical apps that are only available via F-Droid but also critical apps that will only work on non-rooted phones.
I don't know how I can resolve this, other than having two phones. PostmarketOS is nice but far too limited for my use case.
@neil I've concluded that my short term plan is to get a Harmony NextOS phone ASAP. I'd rather give my info to the Chinese than to Google or 5-Eyes.
@neil Agree, but I switched from Apple to have a wider choice of hardware after 1st version of iPhone. Gave Google some feedback after last Android update but it will be ignored. I said my current phone (Pixel7) would likely be my last Android phone (bc AI & other BS). I carry an old 8" tablet and use phone as a hotspot; don't use phone that much. A feature phone w hotspot would suit. HarmonyOS or Linux phone also possible. Not keen on buying new Pixel in hope GrapheneOS won't get killed.
@neil I'm having similar thoughts and feelings at the moment. I dusted off my pmOS-capable device collection and have been trying them out again. Daily driveability is getting closer, but isn't quite there (for me).
The main killer for me is battery life as I tend to be away from power during the day.
Happy to discuss, and will keeping an eye on what you get up to, as ever. 
@neil I'm testing phones for an alternative at the moment as my Nokia X30 will go out of support in January (hopefully HMD will unlock it). I've got a couple of cheap phones that will run phone-based Linuxes or Ubuntu Touch so I will give them a try as well as e/OS and degoogled Lineage.
@neil I am moving forward with PostmatketOS in the hope that when the Google guillotine comes crashing down a lot of very pissed off developers will be making fast inroads into the OS
@neil I'm in the same position, Neil. I chose android as the lesser of two evils but now that's changed and there's little alternative.
The world seems to be happy with being told what they can and cannot do.
@neil Your options are:
1) Google
2) Apple
Both of those are highly restrictive, but also there's
3) Wilderness
I've been option 3 for a decade now. It's been hard. Very hard. I basically live my life telling everyone I don't have a smart phone, even though I do. Because that's effectively the result.
@neil when my current phone becomes unusable due to hardware decay or whatever, I'm going to move away from Google.
Either it will be something with Murena eOS (if that has managed to stay free of Google interference), or I'll reactivate my old Razr or get a non-smart phone. And yes, the latter two will mean a commitment to no social media, no GPS navigation, no search-for-nearest hardware store while mobile...
@neil We erred collectively in allowing this duopoly to happen. Massive failure of public policy. So don't blame yourself overly much for choosing one side of the duopoly since the other is not much less problematic.
@neil You're using GrapheneOS as well currently, right? What would be an acceptable alternative for you?
@neil ah, yes. The app store. I totally get it now.
I wonder if distributions like GrapheneOS can preserve installation freedom somehow, over Google's objections, or we really just need to abandon Android entirely as unsalvagable.
@neil are there specific threats that come from Android itself? Specifically, Graphene's cleaned-up version of Android? Or are you just looking to try something new. Asking in case there's something scary you know that I don't.
@neil What's lacking in GrapheneOS?
I'm interested in your "journey" because my aims are similar.
It would be great to be able to buy a fully functional smartphone off the shelf that is compatible with Android apps but not connected to Google.
Alas, as you've said elsewhere, that's not currently possible and I'm not sure I can be bothered to (though ultimately I may forced to) carry two phones with the functions I need split between them.
@neil @sarahdalgulls Suffers in what way? Just curious (I too have GrapheneOS on one of my Pixels).
@neil I only really need a smartphone in order to run banking apps as everything else is achievable on a web browser.
Trouble is the banking apps only seem to run on iis or android. They also love having a duopoly and think it's ok
@neil I was instantly sold on PostmarketOS when I realised that I could have duck facts on my home screen (under SXMO) with a simple one line shell script... https://martinh.net/@m/114920751495302303
@neil
I can recommend Ubuntu Touch, having used it on my phones for 10 years now. Easily flashed onto many Android devices, for a de-Googled phone that works
@neil ahh I see the difference now, sorry I misunderstood
@neil every time I think about switching to postmarketOS I come to the conclusion that all the apps it has are poorly adapted for a phone and I would likely need to write a lot of software myself. At that point I'm probably better off sticking to GrapheneOS and restricting myself FOSS.
@neil it's a shame they don't support newer devices very well...
@neil I see. Good luck with that, I never could warm up to it
What is it that you are losing when you take the "non-smartphone" approach? Do you require some specific application? If so, likelihood is that won't work when you use something that isn't Android or iOS anyway.
@neil I was looking at https://e.foundation/e-os/ last night too, although I don't know much about it
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