Post by @jz@piaille.fr

I spoke to a few proponents of vibe-coding: some people i deeply respect, some with deep experience of engineering, some i would say would be the best qualified for actually _knowing what they're doing_ when they engineer, review, and test code output by these ocean-boiling, sociopath-owned #LLM monstrosities..🤖🔥

..in most cases one of the main arguments is (it's easy &) _it is fast_. "can do so much in so little time!" "life too short!", "more productive", etc. it all converges abt speed.

Funny as it never struck me that software dev was _too slow_! on the contrary one could argue that taking time is actually a feature for more stable/durable software.🤔

#llm

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Stephen Cross

@scross01@mstdn.plus 2 hr. ago

@jz vibe coding is the fast part, it's the post-vibe reviewing, iterating, hardening, security scanning, performance profiling, accessibility, documenting, etc. that takes time and way more tokens. If you skip those steps it's just a prototype.

#llm #ai #vibecoding

josemanuel

@josemanuel@social.sdfeu.org 2 hr. ago

@jz I had to vibecode for work once and at first I had very little oversight. This allowed me to write the same project twice, one with an LLM and another by myself with Emacs. I can say from experience that vibecoding is NOT faster and it's much more frustrating, because the machine does not always do what you want despite your instructions. Moreover, if the project includes frontend, then an LLM is noticeably slower, because it has no sense of aesthetics and you have to edit CSS by hand.

shonin

@shonin@c.im 2 hr. ago

@jz I think the idea (on the part of the tech-bro overlords) is that it _speeds_ transfer of income from us to tech-bro overlords. Innovation on behalf of mercantile efficiency is generally about enclosure of the commons. They seem to be in an awful hurry to get that done.

d1 @ fosdem

@d1@autonomous.zone 2 hr. ago

@jz the taylorism within!

Jérémie Zimmermann🎶💗🧀🫖

@jz@piaille.fr 2 hr. ago

@d1 yep. "fast" is a value for those who optimize numbers, not the well-being of people. it is used to standardize in industrial logic, to make things like products, predictable, and people and their jobs replaceable.

I think beyond the science-fiction rationale, the promises of sentient "buddies" or whatevers, beyond the fascination for the tool, etc. it is all about "good'ol" industrial logic to get rid of creativity, unpredictability, reduce "the human factor" to numbers and turn everything into profit to dominate, accumulate and sell, sell, sell....

d1 @ fosdem

@d1@autonomous.zone 2 hr. ago

@jz 💯

the gender imbalance, lack of unionisation and the "labour aristocracy" position of tech workers are imho some of the fundamental reasons to "how did we end up here?"

many so-called hackers finished with a liberal worldview which above all upholds the system of domination as a bottom line

the llm bias/addictions, endless bdfl organised projects, permissive licenses, rejection of CoCs and apolitical "its a tool" positions are symptoms that are so amplified now...

Jérémie Zimmermann🎶💗🧀🫖

@jz@piaille.fr 3 hr. ago

..reinforces my intuition that vibe-code is like fast-food:

🔥 wasteful, hurts ecosystems and people

💗 not best solution to remain healthy, better options exist that require to learn skills and work can be shared, mutualized and lead to personal enjoyment

💰 controlled by few actors, relies on huge-scale economies

🤤 makes people who use it lose sense of what is actually food/code

📺 a socio-cultural trend dictated by marketing and fashion

#LLM seem to already have durably changed habits; we'll see how much of it was hype when prices get real, bubble collapses etc.

🗑️ i think a lot of that #fast-code will end up -as fast as it was produced- as abandonware.

Dimly Lit Corners

@DLC@mstdn.social 2 hr. ago

@jz "This code would've been much shorter had I had more time."

Nemo_bis 🌈

@nemobis@mamot.fr 3 hr. ago

@jz One argument I've heard ad nauseam, and which is honestly a good one if true (at least in B2B): you can get feedback faster from the real users of the software, if you can build a functioning prototype instead of a mockup, or something close to a prototype plus a concise spec instead of a lengthy spec nobody is going to read. (Unfortunately I'm yet to see any assessment of whether this is actually working, other than "sales go up and go faster".)

MSTDNSecure

@MSTDNSecure@mstdn.plus 3 hr. ago

@jz ᴏᴜʀ ᴀᴜᴛᴏᴍᴀᴛᴇᴅ ꜱʏꜱᴛᴇᴍꜱ ᴅᴇᴛᴇᴄᴛᴇᴅ ɪʀʀᴇɢᴜʟᴀʀ ᴀᴄᴛɪᴠɪᴛʏ ᴡɪᴛʜ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴀᴄᴄᴏᴜɴᴛ.

ᴛᴏ ʀᴇꜱᴛᴏʀᴇ ꜰᴜʟʟ ᴠɪsɪʙɪʟɪᴛʏ ᴀɴᴅ ᴀᴄᴄᴇꜱꜱ, ᴘʟᴇᴀꜱᴇ ᴄᴏᴍᴘʟᴇᴛᴇ ᴛʜᴇ ᴠᴇʀɪꜰɪᴄᴀᴛɪᴏɴ ᴘʀᴏᴄᴇꜱꜱ.

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