Post by @neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk

When I see statements like "teenagers are spending 4-6 hours online, instead of going outside and meeting people" as a justification for further web regulation, I wonder to myself:

- if it had been 4-6 hours reading books, practising musical instruments, creating art, or similar, would they be demanding that books, instruments etc. have a watershed? If not, why not?

- what is the "acceptable" amount of time for a teenager to spend online each day? What makes it so?

- "going outside and meeting people" suggests a particular worldview of what is "good", which will appeal to - indeed, be possible for - some people far more than others. I was never massively sociable, and that's no crime. A day at school, and now work, would involve plenty enough peopling time for me. I am far more sociable online then offline. Where are the local free places where teenagers can get to and hang out, safely, in the warm? (They might exist in some places?)

#EUKIDSAct

#eukidsact

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Rocketman

@slothrop@chaos.social last wk.

@neil re the last point specifically:

We have commercialized our society so far that all the hanging-out spaces are becoming enclosed, and are disappearing.

This hits teenagers especially hard, because they usually have the least disposable money. But it’s a pretty horrific way to run a society in general.

Ryan

@fullywoolly@mastodon.social last wk.

@neil I was easily spending 4-6 hrs online chatting with friends from school on AIM, moderating a forum, learning photo manipulation with gnu imp and creating art with it, learning about linux, lots of slashdot, security focus, doing homework... Lots of school activities, had a gf, etc.

I'm with you, I was way more social online. Part of that was how my school bused kids from across the city. But that continued in a large part through undergrad.

It wasn't an exclusive or situation.

Mastodon Migration

@mastodonmigration@mastodon.online last wk.

@neil

Just replace "online" with "watching TV" and you've captured the moral panic of the two previous generations. And you know what, they were right. 🤷

Florian Schmidt

@schmidt_fu@mstdn.social last wk.

@neil
The people who have been online 4-6 hours a day back then (mostly at night, because dial-in rates) are nowadays in good part the backbone of our technical world.
And they
- talked to anonymous strangers from the end of the world
- consumed questionable content
- made equally questionable websites ("profiles")
- joined in popularity contests ("social")

Maybe we can get rid of the "screen time" argument for good, and focus on intention and media literacy somewhat...

Florian Schmidt

@schmidt_fu@mstdn.social last wk.

@neil
Not to forget: They were super privileged to be in such a position and have a head start over most of the world.
Now that everyone has this, it should be restricted? That's funny...

Giles of the Jungle

@gilester45@twit.social last wk.

@schmidt_fu @neil I was one of these people and I'm all the better for it.

However now the internet has swollen to encompass everyone we see all aspects of humanity there. Lots still good. But, just like offline society, lots of awfulness too.

The internet as we experienced it in the nineties is long gone.

Adults who grew up with the good aspects of online life are slowly waking up to the reality of mid-2020s online, and are finding it shocking.

Jules she/her

@afewbugs@social.coop last wk.

@gilester45 @schmidt_fu @neil also how good the internet was in the late 90s/early 2000s rather depended on who you were. I had a good time and got a lot out of the experience, but that was because I was very careful about following the most important rule which was never let anyone find out you were a girl. Which in retrospect is an extremely fucked up way for half of humanity to have had to behave.

Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

@steve@mastodon.nexusuk.org last wk.

@neil my view would depend on what they are doing online. Creative stuff = good, 6 hours of doomscrolling = bad.

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Steve Hill 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

@steve@mastodon.nexusuk.org last wk.

@neil yes, of course
I did immediately think that "meeting people" is considered a risky behaviour these days!

Owlor

@Owlor@meow.social last wk.

@neil It's really the same error of thinking as "kids these days spend too much time at the computer!" without really looking into what the kids are doing at the computer, which was generally some combination of expressing themselves, engaging with art, meeting friends, learning programming and commiting cybercrimes, the latter of which being perhaps not unambigiously positive but still under the general header of "learning useful skills", just in a slightly misdirected way.

Alastair Temple

@smilingdemon@mastodon.art last wk.

@neil it also assumes that there are places for them to go...

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Jeff Grigg

@JeffGrigg@mastodon.social last wk.

@neil @smilingdemon

Safely and *cool* in some places, like the Midwest, where even sitting in the shade outside will get you covered in sweat. Heat warnings are common.

From where I live, that would just about only be the small local library. The nearest enclosed shopping mall is hard to get to without driving.

HollieK

@HollieK72@mastodonapp.uk last wk.

@neil @smilingdemon I'm pretty sure we don't have any local free places that teenagers can get to and hang out, safely, in the warm. They can hang out in the park, but there's no shelter. If they congregate in the shopping area, people mutter about gangs of youths and ask them what they are doing there. They can't win.

HollieK

@HollieK72@mastodonapp.uk last wk.

@neil @smilingdemon We are getting a skate park and pump track, that was campaigned for and is now being built. It will be a good place for young people, however I don't know if it's going to be free to use.

Alastair Temple

@smilingdemon@mastodon.art last wk.

@neil so it is. I clearly haven't woken up properly yet. My bad!

Anton Piatek

@sldrant@mastodon.social last wk.

@neil my problem is when my 15yo spend 5+ hrs on tiktok on a day when she tells me she's studying hard for exams.

argv minus one

@argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org last wk.

@sldrant

Is there a reason you aren't using the parental controls on her device to stop her from doing that?

@neil

Thatfeministwoman

@Thatfeministwoman@mastodon.social last wk.

@argv_minus_one @sldrant @neil I actually have seen alot of kids when I'm outside (usually only little boys) just "walking" home from school and they just stand there touching their phones (doing I don't know) and my first grandpa doggy always barked at them 😁 so parents can't control that.

Parent: "why does it take you an hour to get home when we live close?"

What do you do with that?

argv minus one

@argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org last wk.

@Thatfeministwoman

Monitor their location, remotely lock their apps, call them…

And be grateful kids these days all use their phones to do their mischief! In my day, kids would disappear to their favorite hangouts for hours at a time, and you'd have no idea where the hell they were until they decided to show up! I did that to my parents once or twice, and I wasn't even a particularly mischievous kid!

The entitlement and ingratitude of parents these days, I swear to God. 🤬

@sldrant @neil

argv minus one

@argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org last wk.

@Thatfeministwoman

I'm not worried about kids these days. Not at all.

They're doing the same things they've always done. Now they're using their phones to do it, but big deal. Different century, same shit.

What I am worried about is all the middle-aged adults, who've evidently forgotten their own childhoods, completely failed to see the parallels, and now demand the government violently eradicate all public discourse! Something very bad has happened to these people's brains.

@sldrant @neil

Ben Curthoys

@bencurthoys@mastodon.social last wk.

@neil when books were new (novel!) then yes, there absolutely was a similar moral panic about how reading too many books was rotting children's brains.