@neil interacting with the physical world in almost(!) any way stimulates brain in much more harmonic way than sitting and staring at few square inches (a foot at most) of screen. especially wrt social interactions.

@neil
You make a solid point.

I would phrase it "being outside" or "doing something that requires mental energy or creativity" scrolling TikTok, or algorithm driven for addictiveness SM feeds

@neil Phones are bad for the brain, which is not true of books. And yes, going outside is good and free.
Of course there are exceptions, if you are allergic to grass, you shouldn't touch grass, but exceptions are just that

@neil @nxskok I think about this one a lot:

"Where are the local free places where teenagers can get to and hang out, safely, in the warm?" *

And, in absence of these, socialising with friends online does seem like a natural place to gravitate to. Never having had the other, kids don't know what they're missing, by not being in-person. 🤷‍♀️

* I asked my library if folks can talk in there, they said yes, they have conversation areas! Good for adults but kids need room to move & be noisy, too.

@neil I remember some dingus accusing me of only engaging in D&D instead of "real" social interaction. Same general vibe.

@neil where are kids supposed to go? There are no third spaces left for kids to hang out.

@neil as a parent who himself grew up with too much screen time, I try to limit my kids screen time, but I also recognize how the quality of screen time is also a major factor, and I parent accordingly

I think the major problem is that regulators are focusing entirely on just one head of the hydra (screen time and phone addiction) and focusing on just fighting that one head instead of focusing on the body of the hydra. Yes every head of the hydra is a nasty beast inofitself, and yes it's an achievement to defeat one head, but if you know your mythology, you cut off one head two more replace it.

I think the body of the hydra is the advertising surveillance economy. The server capacity to support billions of people using platforms for multiple hours per day is so much more than the server capacity for billions of people to use platforms for multiple minutes a day. Platforms only refine themselves for this level of addiction because it's profitable, and if their profit model was something other than advertising and data harvesting they would actually *want* users using their platforms less!

I strongly believe this is why the legislation trying to create privacy protections, limit technology addiction, etc. has been largely ineffectual. They aren't focused on the problem they're focused on the symptoms! The EU cut off the data harvesting head of the hydra with the GDPR and two more replaced it as companies still found ways to compliantly harvest and sell data to maintain their business models. Countries are passing age verification bills to cut off the head of childhood smartphone addiction just to create more heads in loss of privacy and the logical effects of the age verification bills themselves!

Anyways I've rambled enough, but obviously this is something I care about and I hope more can start to see the forest for the trees

@neil also very curious whether that 4-6 hours includes time spent playing with friends. Just because they play in a virtual space doesn't mean they're not socializing.

@neil my thoughts on this are complex. I spent a LOT of my childhood in books, but also a lot outside in random nearby wild spaces, completely unsupervised.

There's a distinct health benefit to children spending time in wild spaces and sunshine and groups of other children. Learning to love the real world a little helps them make better decisions later.

@neil

People also complain all the time when teenagers are hanging around somewhere outside.

@neil
2 thoughts.

Rhe version of online teens are experiencing the version made by adults.
If you believe it's bad being online then be an adult that helps fix it.

During lockdown my kids spend a lot of time online.
One was in her room for hours and I was concerned. They she came out after learning all about Victoria clothes and had hand made a shirt and then a walking skirt.
The others were playing Minecraft and Robolox with their friends while on voice chat. Online worked for them.

@neil We can also wonder how much time their parents are spending online every day :)

@neil I spent loads of time as a kid, when I might have been going outside, doing ham radio. That was a sort of social network before the social networks of today existed. But it was indoors.

I never really understood why "outdoors" had such prestige in some peoples' minds.

Why did we have sports days, and not physics days?

@neil also consider the variety of cultures you get exposure to online. In-person you mostly meet people from your neighbourhood whereas online you meet them from all around the world and learn things you could not in your own area.

@neil If your child overwhelmingly does one thing with their entire free time to the neglect of other things - even if it is studying - that should be a concern, because you want to raise humans who are capable of balancing responsibilities, healthy social interaction and pursuing passions. The answer is not about numbers, it's about developing a correct attitude about things in life.