Discussion
RE: https://mastodon.social/@glyph/117276148697658083
i boosted this and i think it's a great idea
at the same time, in this network in particular i'm not overconfident it would be that helpful. mastodon has cultivated a very strong "right to reply" ethos (libertarian FLOSS-y). i can't count how many times i've had men explain to me that *i* "don't understand social media" when i'm objecting to their condescending, ignorant rudeness in my replies
that's thoughtful. i tend to look at whether things are on quiet public or fully public in making a consideration but i also think i need to rethink some
@inquiline Totally agree that there needs to be a shift around this.
I eventually felt that way about comments on my website. I decided that, actually, this is my space. You don't have any divine right to put your words in my domain.
I think you are totally right that UX approaches only go so far. Perhaps strong moderation tools take this a bit further. But it is really a shift in norms and attitudes that is going to be the crucial, yet very difficult, social aspect to change, I think. Even powerful blocking tools don't help because, at least for me, I have ingrained the social stigma that somehow this is a bad thing, and that I'm not talking to people on 'both sides' of the debate. That's probably an embarrassing admission, but I think it's a true self-psychological analysis. It seeps in.
Anyway, if you have ideas about ways to make this better, I would be very interested in reading them in future.
ran out of chars in reply to @lavaeolus so did not tag you in, but wanted to make sure you saw Henrik's reply re GTS & Bonfire:
https://fedihum.org/@lavaeolus/117276558489297516
IMO blocking is worse than preempting some of the worse interactions
& repeating myself, did you happen to see this paper i wrote about some of this? like yours re your blog, my thinking also continues to evolve but i do think we can continue to sharpen what is "the network" meaning norms v. architecture here:
https://openjournals.uwaterloo.ca/index.php/JoCI/article/view/6644
ran out of chars in reply to @lavaeolus so did not tag you in, but wanted to make sure you saw Henrik's reply re GTS & Bonfire:
https://fedihum.org/@lavaeolus/117276558489297516
IMO blocking is worse than preempting some of the worse interactions
& repeating myself, did you happen to see this paper i wrote about some of this? like yours re your blog, my thinking also continues to evolve but i do think we can continue to sharpen what is "the network" meaning norms v. architecture here:
https://openjournals.uwaterloo.ca/index.php/JoCI/article/view/6644
@inquiline @lavaeolus Thank you for this, and I apologise but I had not seen this yet. I'm going to bookmark it because I'm not in a great state in a hospital on oxygen, but I will get to this as soon as I have the mental ability to give it attention. TY
oh goodness, please consider this the very lowest priority; i only shared now since you asked. i am sending all the warmest wishes for you getting more fixed up soon, it sounds utterly dreadful 💙
@mpe I completely agree with "a shift in norms and attitudes that is going to be the crucial, yet very difficult, social aspect to change"
And I'm a firm believer in 'tech helps with shaping & nudging, but is near powerless against the human factors shaping both it and how people interact'
I wish I had an easy solution how to 'fix' those human factors...
(Expect for leading by example and community work I don't see much; and both are certainly not "easy")
@inquiline yeah, UI/UX can only do so much; and I fear yet another tech 'solution' to a sociocultural problem...
Feeling a bit snarky today: Some issues don't need a nudge, they need a punch.
THIS THIS THIS. i'm thinking right now specifically of a reply guy from a couple of days ago who barged in, dripping with condescension, to make beyond unnecessary nitpicks, then got a pissy reception from me and a couple of people with whom i interact, then yelped about how we could *learn humility from him* and blocked me. glyph's UX suggestion is no match for that entitlement
@inquiline Thanks, I'm quite proud of what my brain conjured up 😅
Yes, I don't know why (probably because men - there is the snark again) some people don't understand that a reply means entering someone's turf and playing by their rules (+ the general moderation rules of both servers)
they literally articulate in the terms of "if i can see your post, i have the right to say whatever i want"--which IMO is a fucked-up belief. that contextual awareness of being bound by some greater mutuality (or else go post it on your own TL) is completely missing; AND they seem kind of proud of it.
it's at the point where i'm going to be less personal on this account; i'm fed up with people's "access to my psyche" as excuse to unload arrogant, patronizing (and i repeat, usually outright wrong) commentary
i've also been reflecting on the ways in which our habits of boosting underrepresented people (explicitly to be prosocial) have resulted in hypervisibility and them receiving garbage. if people have thoughts about that, LMK. and also always tell me if you want me to unboost something 💛
@inquiline the whole libertarian "i do what i want" thing that doesn't take into account that other people *also* get to do what they want in response is such coddled little boy bullshit
what kills me about this is that they think they're superior to others for having thought this through and arrived at "i get to do what i want, check mate"
@inquiline superior beings, fragile egos
@inquiline your second paragraph here is something that I think about a lot (and yes, the irony that I've just boosted your previous toot here...)
I have no good solutions, mind. Just a lot of fretting on the subject!
me too, especially recently. if i hear feedback i can share i will boost (w permission) or synthesize it
(and i just boosted you too, LMK if i should retract or if i'm ever being annoying w that)
@inquiline
Is it ok if I boost this? I've worried that my boosting certain posts might also have caused problems for the posters. Correlation or causation? I boosted and people got rude replies, maybe they would have anyway?
absolutely fine, this account has a level of visibility that is beyond my control (plus, a stalker) so i don't expect anything here to be private in any way. but thanks for checking!
and to your other point, if i get replies that speak to this i will either boost with permission or synthesize and say more. recently after seeing a relative newcomer moot here go thru the whole (quick) arc of visibility --> disillusioned have i been thinking about it more
@inquiline you have many more followers than me and I'm even sick of it. I don't love how I've turned into someone with the smallest block threshold.
so many Fedi users need to learn to **make their own post** instead of replying
Especially if they don't follow the poster. just make your own post. Oh it won't get as many views? Too bad, maybe there's a reason for that, also that's a really weird reason to be annoying anyways.
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@inquiline when posting or boosting I always pause. While I try to cultivate the right to repair vibe, I always anticipate the right to reply trolls.