Discussion
I am sorry to say Graphene has fallen to the slop. thread: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117226938743085364
they are making out that their vibe coding isn't *vibe* coding how dare you, which may be worse https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49591796
edit: hello grapheneOS street team! I saw your AGENTS.md from across the room and your vibe is rancid
@davidgerard fuck you for making such disinformation.
If someone is using ai additionally with humans for code review or coding, that's not slop or vibecoding.
So many people here fear everything when there is something with AI without understanding anything.
@davidgerard i thought there would have been meaningful change when these alternate rom projects were introduced, i.e. software ran by people who are not fascists. y'know, the bare minimum? guess not...
@davidgerard and out of ALL the possible agents they could use they decided GPT was the best option. Hell if they went with Claude i'd give them the slightest of leeway but god damn this project is dead to me.
@davidgerard How do they plan to keep their operating system secure if they're using a machine that outputs gauze for code? There's not a single place there isn't a hole in LLM output "code".
@davidgerard I really should have gotten a Fairphone huh. Sadly this is one of those things you really can't just turn back on easily as far as I know. Much like Linux.
@davidgerard god fucking dammit! The whole appeal of this project was that commited experts would patch everything. What's even the point?
@davidgerard “The output is filled with hallucinations and incorrect details but an experienced developer can sift through it, identify the real issues it uncovered and get those fixed.”
Because every developers favorite part of using code analysis tools has always been sifting through all the false positives.
interesting or even surprising is that they don’t even try to downplay how much errors there are in the output - they focus on downplaying how easy it is to fix them 😹
every single time i saw a shitty codebase that i wanted to rewrite immediately but then didn’t, e.g. due completely nonexistent specs to do that right… i did regret it later quite a bit.
@iain This may be me personally, but this approach feels beneath me.
I did not spend more than fifteen years honing my craft only to be degraded to a babysitter for someone's poor-quality tool.
@iain yeah that bit was very obviously someone pasting in a marketing excuse
@davidgerard If ycombinator is the source on grapheneos issues, then it's not true. Some of you sound like religious nutjobs when asking about ai with words like 'tainted', a horseshoe version of twitter users who are psychotically pro ai.
@frutiger@mastodon.social mastodon.social, 14 followers, thanks slopbot
the source is reading their fucking AGENTS.md you dipshit
@davidgerard
“I read your AGENTS.md” diss
@davidgerard really wish I wasn't reliant on having a smartphone, it's all so grim
@elexia @davidgerard I don't want operating system updates anymore at this point.
@jackielovescompchem32 @davidgerard I don't want operating systems anymore. computers and capitalism are a horrible combination.
@davidgerard@circumstances.run oh nice they are not even arguing against the social and environmental problems and just talk about tool efficiency.
guess as long as Soylent Green meets the nutritional macros…
@davidgerard A cursory glance at their posts suggests they're stressing it isn't vibe *coding* if it's only "auditing" existing code?
Which is a very fine line that still results in /using/ the slop machinery.
I wish the software development ecosystem would fix the underlying architectural problems rather than keep brushing them under the rug. But we're now all so entrenched in arguing to slop or not to slop that few are talking about what it means not to slop.
@zimzat also it never, ever stays true. It's another "i'm totally not vibe coding, I'm" [list of things anyone else would call abject vibe coding]
@davidgerard If by "vibe coding" we mean "anything involving the software development process" then technically yes.
But definitions matter, in the same way the layperson saying "I have a theory" and Scientific Theory mean two different things yet get purposely conflated.
The fact that 'vibe auditing' can stochastically find actual security vulnerabilities says to me that we've done a horrible job on the coding part.
That they have AGENTS for coding suggests it won't remain "vibe auditing". 😞️
@zimzat @davidgerard This post makes it sound like they're using it for code generation too; the same "oh but it's just a developer's private test branch" shtick as with the Bun Rust migration:
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117227346006458958
Plus, their AI-generated AGENTS.md explicitly talks of code generation, so yeah. I can imagine them perhaps being a tad more careful than many sloppers, but even then, AI use has this tendency to make the user less careful and less capable over time.
@davidgerard Only the finest artisanal slop
I was always suspicious of the fact that they focused mainly on using Google software honestly. They claimed it was because it has the best security features, but then go and use a method of generating code that's notorious for creating security problems?
@contrasocial @davidgerard Yup. It's pretty rich of Graphene to go AI after the long ranting threads they would post on the shortcomings of other projects. They trashed other degoogled Androids, they trashed non-Android Linux phones, they trashed other FOSS Android projects like F-Droid etc. Their way was the only true way.
@davidgerard That sucks.
I wonder if anyone has started making up a list of untainted/ethical/respectable OSS projects, as it's becoming increasingly hard to find projects that haven't given up to the broligarchs.
If not, should we start one? I reckon it might be depressingly short.
@davidgerard "Many valid issues are reported in between the hallucinations and other nonsense. It takes additional time to confirm which issues are real and address it."
Well, how does it help then?
How does it help?
In an OS that people use because they fear for their lives.
How does it help?
I am beyond angry. 
@davidgerard the part about contractors paying for their own llm tokens is pretty wild.
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117227373537383215
Also, the sock puppets seem like they used an llm.
@davidgerard They're literally doing the ""Guns don't kill people, we have to have guns to kill other people with guns" argument.
"Get more and bigger guns now, it's just a tool"
@davidgerard "Look man, it ain't gambling. See, I gots a system." <twitch>
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@davidgerard
I've always had a bad feeling about Graphene and the more they tried to damage Fairphone's reputation the more they pushed me to Fairphone with LineageOS.
You don't get a partnership with Motorola by truly fighting the system.